Re: Blues Jr Power Tube Overdrive?

On Apr 4, 7:12 pm, Jim <a...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Guncho wrote:
On Apr 3, 9:07 pm, Jim <a...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Guncho wrote:

On Apr 3, 4:58 pm, "rct" <Ron.Thomp...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Guncho wrote:

No, my recollection and experiences, back when attenuators replaced
home made variac type twiddly things we tried out and managed not to
kill ourselves with, is not dead wrong at all.

But also have no bearing on anything we're discussing here.

uh, ok.

People use attenuators for small amps all the time.

I'm sure they do, and I'm sure they sound The Suck, which I tried to
explain to you how and why that MAY be.

You tried and failed. There is no inherent reason why an attenuated
50 watt amp would sound good and an attenuated 15 watt amp would sound
bad.

Ok. If there is no inherent reason, why the 44 posts in a thread you
started, in which you can't seem to get a decent sound out of a decent
amp, attenuated?

That's great. Are we talking about back then? I'm talking about
right now.

Yeah, right now, and you don't seem to be able to get a good sound out
of a little amp, attenuated. We didn't get really good, really
reliable sounds out of them things back then, I am guessing that it
hasn't changed too much, but if it has, it has changed for the better,
making them safer at least.

Me too but only 30 watts. If an Epiphone Valve Jr was too loud for my
bedroom I'd get a new bedroom.

You'd need a new bedroom.
Because people do this all the time

People do what? Get good sounds out of a little amp, attenuated? If
so, I don't see anyone chimin in here with the secret magic formulae
that will help you do what you SEEM to be saying people do all the
time, but that you just can't seem to do. What I meant by that was
that I am fortunate enough to not have to worry about attenuating amps
in my bedroom in that I can get pretty loud and nobody bothers me at
all about it.

these days does not make it ever sound good.

What???

What people do all the time doesn't neccesarily make it sound good.
Ever. Pretty simple.

Remember that. Dimarzio Super Distortion Humbuckers in Floyd Rose equipped "super strats" were
*supposed* to save rock and roll.
Great??

Hyperbole and exaggeration used to make the above point. There once
was a time when people were putting floyd roses on anything that moved
and putting Dimarzio Super Distortions in anything with strings and
they said it was great because everyone was doing it and you know
what? It wasn't. Thassall I was tryin to say to yer.

rct

I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

People use attenuators to great effect on big and little amps all the
time. I can't figure out why I'm not getting much power tube
overdrive with my specific setup.

Either try to help me or piss off.

Chris

Yeah, THAT'S the way to get help...

Guncho, if you have an understanding of the circuit, you could think
about it logically. But if you can goose power tube crunch out of it,
there are a few likely reasons:
- too much drive on the preamp to start with. If the guitar is hot
enough, it'll distort the first couple of gains stages.
- not understanding how to set gain and master.
- mislabeling power tube distortion as preamp distortion. An EL84
sounds different than an EL34 or 6L6 type
- amp design won't allow enough signal to the power tube without
clipping previous stages. Sometimes a bit of boost in the loop can
help. But no loop in a BJ.

Here's your schematic:http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/fender/blues_jr.gif

Look, I think I played a Blues Jr. a few years back for a few minutes.
But I can look at the schematic, think logically, and give you some advice:

Note that you have some sand switching in the cathode cap of the first
gain stage (Q1), along with a rather low value first resistor (R1).
When you bypass that resistor (R9) on the cathode cap (C3), you are
INCREASING preamp gain. You don't want that, at least not if it's
causing the problem that I'm hearing from you.

LEAVE THE FAT OFF! Otherwise, you'll have too much preamp gain to
ensure a healthy balance of power tube distortion.

The real trick is to know when the volume control causes the second gain
stage to distort, and keep it below that, and use the master for power
tube distortion. Now, that does NOT mean just max out the master and
rely on your volume. Why not? Because you have a bright cap on that
volume (C2), and it might sound better turned up more (reducing the
bright effect) than you otherwise would with the master wide open (which
emphasizes the bright effect). So the best sounding power tube
distortion could be with the master less than full.

If you can read a schematic, you'll know why you need to leave the fat
switch OFF to ensure clean gain before the power stage.

HUMOR ME. Try this:

Leave the Fat switch OFF, even if you like the tone for preamp distortion.

Set master to full.

Set bass low (my guess is 2).

Set mids high (12:00 or higher, perhaps dimed).

Set treble moderate (I'd try about 10:00 or slightly lower).

Increase the volume. Once you hear power tube distortion, back the
MASTER down a bit, and increase the volume more. Keep doing this until
you get the best sounding distortion. This will be pulling some of the
bright cap out of the circuit.

If you're still hearing too much preamp distortion, back off on the
GUITAR volume and repeat all of the above.

Try all of this without the attenuator (yeah, it'll be on the loud
side). Find your tone, THEN kick in the attenuator. You may find that
the attenuator makes the power tube distortion sound a bit harsher, more
like preamp distortion.

If you can't get the EL84's to sing doing that, I'd buy another amp.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Jim

I didn't start playing guitar yesterday. I know how to get power tube
overdrive out of a tube amp. You turn it up really loud. It's not
complicated.

What a freakin' waste of time!

I forgot you know everything already.

Consider that my LAST attempt to help you.

I apologize Jim. I was a little testy and found your answer extremely
complicated for something that is really very simple. You get power
tube overdrive by turning your amp up loud. The attenuator takes that
volume and reduces it. Simple.


My problem is WITH the attenuator there is not very much
power tube overdrive at any setting on this amp. If there was, I
wouldn't have to turn the preamp up to 7+ to get any overdrive.

Your biggest problems are that you think you know everything, and you
are not receptive to help.

If that were the case, I wouldn't ask for help and advice.

Chris

.

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