Re: Blues Jr Power Tube Overdrive?



Guncho wrote:
On Apr 3, 2:47 am, "Don Evans" <gtrdonev...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
I had this all done, and OE crashed ... the original reply was much
better ....





Guncho wrote:
What you are getting backwards about is this:

Low master volume knob settings + high volume knob settings =
clean

and

High master volume knob + low volume knob = dirty

That is backwards. It's not right.

If you read it again, you'll see that I'm trying to find the
maximim clean preamp setting.

Ok gotcha.

Turning down the power amp (master volume) to, for
instance, 2

This is too loud for my bedroom.

Well then, 1.





enables you to tell when the preamp starts distorting by turning
it up gradually. OK?

Ok

Now, knowing where that point is, we turn up the
power amp all the way. Now, set your preamp at 1 ... no
distortion, right?

Right

Turn it up gradually until there is distortion. OK? If your
preamp is lower than it was earlier, then the distortion you hear
is power amp distortion. OK?

I guess.

NOW!!! Hook up your Weber attenuator. Turn it down. The
distortion you now hear is power amp distortion, and that is why
you bought the damn thing, RIGHT? ;-)

It's not working that way though. My normal setting is preamp 11,
master volume 1. Lots of preamp gain. With the attenuator turned
way down to bedroom volumes, my master at 12, slowly turning the
preamp knob up I have to go to like 8 just to get a similar level
of gain as my normal setting. This setting also seems a little
muffled. There's bit of power tube gain I'm sure but a bit is the
key word. Not what I'm used to for sure with my Duncan's. Bottom
line is the amp sounds better and voice level volumes than it does
with the attenuator.

So you're saying that you can take a distorted amp tone, with the
master volume on 12, hook up the attenuator and it gets cleaner? Or
am I not understanding you?


That's not what I'm saying no. I'm saying that without the
attenuator, I have to turn my preamp to about 10 to get an acceptable
level of overdrive. With the attenuator, I have to turn the preamp to
about 7 to get an acceptable level of overdrive. That's not much
power amp overdrive at all. On my Duncan I could leave the preamp at
3 and get tonnes of power amp overdrive. Also as it kindof sounds
muffled, it makes the attenuator kinda pointless as I like the sound
of the preamp gain on this amp.

I just re-read this ... does the tone change when you switch the unit in and
out? If so, that's pretty much what Weber says it doesn't do ... might be
time to call him.


I get the part about the lack of brilliance, or muffled.
EL84s sound different from 6L6s in any amp, but I've noticed in this
one they are a little darker than in, for instance, a Vox or even a
PV. I have the older "green board" model, but I've noticed it in
the newer ones as well. Anyway, when you're at 8, you probably have
some preamp distortion as well. Maybe that's not a bad thing.

The amp doesn't sound muffled without the attenuator.

I answered this in another post without reading this one. Have you
considered that maybe the Weber isn't functioning correctly?



If you turn the master volume down to say 1 and the preamp to 10,
there's no way you're getting a loud clean sound from a Blues Jr.
I was just in my room two minutes ago playing at this setting
with no attenuator. This setting is low volume, high gain.

Of course. The whole point of the attenuator is to put the master
on 12 and turn up the preamp enough to drive the output tubes into
distortion then turn the attenuator down (up if it's labeled that
way .. whichever makes it softer) so you have that tone at a
manageable level.

But's it not doing that hence my post. Is it because I am
attenuating so much?

As above ... it cleans up when you use the attenuator?

No. The amp doesn't have much power tube overdrive with the
attenuator. That's the problem. I have to rely predominately on
preamp gain with or without the attenuator.

Got it. Is there some time of day you can just crank the amp master and
blast away? Maybe you just don't prefer that tone from this amp.




>> See above



By preamp, you mean the knob marked volume right?

Yes. And when I say power amp volume I mean Master. On my amp,
and like all Fenders these days these are a little inconsistent,
Master 12 preamp 4 (or so) is where it starts to distort ... a
little. Since the preamp doesn't distort by itself until it's
higher (6 or 7 on my amp) the distortion we hear is from the power
amp being overdriven.

At that setting on my amp with the attenuator, it is clean. Not
overdriven. That's the problem. My Duncan reacted exactly the way
you state. This amp with the attenuator, does not.

Chris

Wow. You're sure it's hooked up correctly, right? No offense or
anything.

If it wasn't, would I be getting any sound?

Don't know. Doesn't seem so. You're going in the in and out the out, right?
Don't mind the dumb questions, sometimes this stuff matters and we miss the
obvious. Also ... are you using the mini or the micro?



OK. Sometimes when you attenuate the output enough, you lose tone.
Could that be happening, or are you just not getting the tone you
like from the output tubes?

This has nothing really to do with tone. With the attenuator, there
is very little power tube overdrive at any setting. If there was, I
wouldn't have to turn the preamp knob to 7.

One thing I've noticed about the Blues Junior is that the
tone changes a lot at different Master settings ... you get what you
pay for, I guess. Maybe you could just back of a couple of numbers
on the Master and try for a tone you like there? Nothing says your
kewl tone has to come from just the output tubes. Especially with
this amp I think the best stuff happens when both stages distort.
And if that happens at a too-loud-for-bedroom level ... you have
your Weber.

Yeah that doesn't seem to be the case.

Chris


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Blues Jr Power Tube Overdrive?
    ... is lower than it was earlier, then the distortion you hear is power ... distortion you now hear is power amp distortion, ... Lots of preamp gain. ... better and voice level volumes than it does with the attenuator. ...
    (alt.guitar)
  • Re: Rich on Amp Use For Live Music. Part #2 Re: Once in a lifetimepirchase - tone monsters
    ... >> SF Deluxe Reverb with no master volume, and a later Deluxe Reverb with a master volume. ... >> what small amount of pre-amp distortion, if any, is present at a lower volume. ... > Not with the amp that you chose for your example. ... In some other amps, I actually LIKE preamp ...
    (alt.guitar.amps)
  • Re: Blues Jr Power Tube Overdrive?
    ... Turning down the power amp (master volume) to, ... is lower than it was earlier, then the distortion you hear is power ... amp distortion. ... better and voice level volumes than it does with the attenuator. ...
    (alt.guitar)
  • Re: Blues Jr Power Tube Overdrive?
    ... 50 watt amp would sound good and an attenuated 15 watt amp would sound ... I can't figure out why I'm not getting much power tube ... mislabeling power tube distortion as preamp distortion. ... THEN kick in the attenuator. ...
    (alt.guitar)
  • Re: Blues Jr Power Tube Overdrive?
    ... 50 watt amp would sound good and an attenuated 15 watt amp would sound ... I can't figure out why I'm not getting much power tube ... mislabeling power tube distortion as preamp distortion. ... THEN kick in the attenuator. ...
    (alt.guitar)