- From: Rufus <not@xxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:48:59 -0700
Rufus wrote:... I just want to play for my
own satisfaction, and maybe for that a few friends on rare occasions.
I really have no ambitions for musical "fame" beyond maybe recording
some of my own stuff if I can get the world to leave me alone long
enough to do so.
Who said anything about fame?
You mentioned "productive"...the two seem to go hand in hand most times.
....something puzzling me of late is that I've gained some local "fame" gigging regularly as a sound/set up guy...which I seriously wasn't looking for. I can barely go to the grocery store or out to eat without getting asked when/if the band is coming...I thought I'd stay out of sight behind the mixer, but NOOOOOOOOOOOO...
What I said was that being able to play anything I wanted,
on a moment's notice, without a bunch of woodshedding,
was how I view productive guitar learning. And that seems
like such an obvious and universal goal, I can't see how
anyone could think otherwise.
Well, yeah. But you have to do something to be able to get to that point. I finally got to it a few years ago...or decided to...when someone remarked - "he don't practice, he just shows up and performs". Since then I've set a goal to live up to that, and I've been doing pretty well for the genre(s) of stuff I play.
....I *really* hate playing covers now, though. So mostly I try not to get into situations where I would have to play out and about. I'll play utility for the band's practices on occasion, or jam with friends, but that's it for me. For now.
Are you saying that you DON'T want to be able to quickly
be able to play something really well? Without a lot of
No. I'm saying that there is all kinds of "woodshedding" and that I think noodling is part of getting past that. Probably the most constructive part in that it builds coordination, IMO.
This "I just want to xxx not really be a good player"
is the same line Ed uses. I don't believe it from
anybody. Who, in the world, doesn't want to be
a good player? A better player?
I didn't say that. I said I had no ambition to make a living making music. There's a difference.
I'll await the rationalization "But I don't want to
work that hard and not have time for kids, family etc".
Well, who said anything about giving all that up? I simply
said that if you take a lazy, non directed approach to
learning music (learning anything) you won't progress
as fast or to as high a skill level as if you'd have
some direction in your learning.
Here I can agree - you can include your family in on making music, and that's a huge part of my background - just about everyone in my family plays at least one instrument and/or sings, some of them play and/or teach music professionally. But one also has to set priorities in life, and in raising a family some personal things end up taking a backseat sometime...
....this from a guy that's never been married, but really always wanted a family...YMMV.
You didn't become an engineer by noodling. You
went to school. You didn't goof around with a pencil
till you figured out, on your own, how to do geometry.
Someone explained to you what a triangle is and how
to figure it's area and whatever else it is that
you do when you're an engineer.
Actually, yes I did. I started by learning to read from my mother's medical texts by the age of two, and studying anatomy on my own and performing (real) dissections by the age of six. I designed a catamaran for skimming oil from an oil slick when I was about 7 or 8 (I still have the drawing) and a couple decades ago I saw some Japanese craft doing the job which looked about exactly like what I'd drawn as a kid...and I would REALLY like my money for that design...
I also did a LOT of building models and tearing stuff apart to see how it worked. By the time I got to college I was already most of an engineer just from that experience (I redesign a gearbox for a Masters student in the dorm one night before I'd even had my first engineering related class)...which really forms the basis of most of my professional aptitude today - that, and my pilot's license.
College was interesting, but it really didn't teach me much about my chosen profession. Dorm life got me a good start at playing guitar, though...
I simply cannot see the "I don't want to excel" argument
holding any water. What's this thing you guys have
against learning? Some kind of macho "I don't need anybody
to tell ME how to play the guitar"?
Where we're parting company is that we choose to different paths to excellence - you seem to think there's only one way, and I think there are many ways - very many ways. One has to first choose one's own way, and then one's own definition of "excellent" to be satisfied with, IMO.
My end goal is to be happy with myself - I really don't care what anyone else thinks...and I find it an unusually nice surprise when someone else actually likes something I do, but I don't choose to seek that from other people. Besides, the surprise only increases my enjoyment.
I don't know what else to call it but lazy.
I know you're not dumb. Hell, you're an engineer.
Ed's a freakin physicist. Why doesn't the concept
of learning engineering or physics
carry over to learning guitar? You didn't have to
"give up everything" to be a good engineer. What
makes you think you have to "give up everything"
to be a good guitarist? I think I know. I think
it's because you've had limited success with your
non-directed approach. So you think that successo
moderoso would be such an inordinate amount of work
that you could never obtain it. And I'm saying that
it WOULD, IF you take a non directed approach.
Well, for one - I've never had to "practice" to be an engineer...or to work in physics research. I've also never had the additional pressures and responsibilities of raising and caring for a family...but I have watched others do it, and the requirement for the setting of priorities.
Personally, I concentrate so hard when I do something creative that the whole world disappears while I'm doing it. I've always used creative activities to create solitude for myself, and I've known a *lot* of people (musicians and non-musicians) like that over the years...some people do drugs, I do what I do.
Meanwhile, those that want to, have great success.
Without ever having to give up "normal" lives.
....I was nationally recognized by my industry in 2006...but I'd *hardly* call my life "normal". I give up a lot for my success...like a lot of other people. But that's my choice.
- Re: Noodling
- From: Lumpy
- Re: Noodling
- Prev by Date: Re: Noodling
- Next by Date: Re: Noodling
- Previous by thread: Re: Noodling
- Next by thread: Re: Noodling