Re: Lessons?..I think NOT!?!?

kitekrazy wrote:
Rufus wrote:



Yeah - my sis has kept my nephews in Montessori, and now in the transition to the public system I'm not sure just how they'll fare.



The Montessori concept is bad to begin with.


....I really don't know much if anything about it...enlighten me...




I remember the number of kids that started with me as engineers just because they knew how to get good grades...hundreds. About 35 of us actually graduated. And I was one of a very few of those that actually knew anything about machines and how they work before I started. I redesigned a gearbox for a guy on my dorm floor one night - he was a Masters student, and I hadn't even had a core engineering class yet.

His roomie asked how I even knew that was a "constant speed gearbox"...I said - "I've built a few models of 'em"...and then looked at his drawing and said - "too bad you'll never be able to build it", and walked out.

About ten minutes later he was down the hall at my room, asking me what I meant...he had gotten to the point where he had to write the assembly instructions and he couldn't...so I went back redid his whole drawing for him. At which point his roomie - who was in my class - said "you're going to be one hell of an engineer".



It's funny. College teachers say. "What are they teaching kids in school these days". Seasoned engineers, "What are they teaching kids in college these days".

I've heard this many times in other professions.


Sometime during our junior year, the prof walked into our dynamics class with something behind his back...he got up to the podium and said - "for those of you that haven't seen one before, THIS, is an airplane"...and then he pulled a toy airplane out from behind his back and proceeded to "fly" it around for us a bit...we all stood and clapped and cheered for about 10 minutes...

All theory, little or no application. I had to fight to take an electronics lab class I wanted in college once...labs are where you actually apply and experience...



...IMO, this is a direct result of the culture of sweeping failure under the rug - you are supposed to fail so that you can learn how not to fail by recognition of a failing situation. It's part of growing up and maturing. In the past I've had teachers that readily admitted to me that they failed classes - and learned from that. Not anymore...


I just heard the same thing last week in a grad course. How true. Funny how many people don't realize that.
When a kid plays a piece of music and when they finish, they want to know what they did wrong.


....and in turn learn how to correct themselves. For themselves.



Testing in the USA is inside-out bass-acwards, IMO. There was a time when tests actually measured what was learned - now politics forces teachers to teach to a test. That's the admin's fault for listening to the politicians.


Maybe that's our fault for voting for them. Admins have no choice if they want to keep their high paying job.


Viscous cycle - again - more about keeping the job than quality of the output. No more pride in the output because pride in general is beaten down in the "leveling".

Vote the bastards out, I say...ALL of them - get me some fresh bastards. And if they screw up - lather, rise, repeat...until it gets right.



That's due to the loss of ability to correctly use language, IMO. And the lose of learning that talking beats fighting by not letting kids fight with fists on a playground...do that for a bit and you just plain grow out of it and learn to do something else. You can teach kids manners and how to look out for themselves at the same time.


Gang bangers know how to say please, thank you and excuse me. What's really missing more is respect for authority.


....have you SEEN our "authority figures" lately? I don't respect many (if any) of them myself...and that's our own fault because we elect such crappy examples and then give them a passes on their lousy behavior and tell the kids "they're just like the rest of us". We've tossed out the rules...and any accountability to them. Can you blame the kids really for living up to our examples? We're reaping what we've sewn.



And that's where I have a problem with folks thinking they can or are supposed to "make a living wage" at McDonald's...you're supposed to move on and up from there once you gain the skills - get 'em, then use 'em.


They can make a living. I did it bagging groceries and working as a security guard. I learned a lot from those experiences.


Yup. But you also moved on and up from them. They were stepping stones...nobody understands that anymore.



Now that's a thought. I'd also like to see K-12 attend school year round and graduating two years sooner, like places in Europe.<

That doesn't really work. Standardize tests are used to prove how dumb Americans are over other nations. I smell a rat behind all of this.


Maybe, but it works - I had to do a bit of cultural research for a biz trip I took to the Continent a few years ago...you should look over the literacy rates in some of the countries that school goes year round in. I'm a believer.

If Europe is so much more intelligent why are their governments and economies so bad? If it weren't for parts of the Middle East, I think Europeans are the dumbest people on the planet.
People visit Europe for it's history, not innovation.


....actually, we and the former Soviets raided Europe for quite a bit of the ideas for things we have right now - from a purely technological standpoint. And a medical one I can think of...pretty nasty example, that one, though...our current mistake is trying to "compete" instead of lead, IMO. So what if it leadership costs more? Look at the "cost" of the alternative...

I wasn't addressing "intelligence"...I think Europe is busy waking up to the failure of socialism while we seem to be busy on our way rushing toward it - or worse. I know the Czech prez and I share some views in common on the subject...

I also think Europe is a pretty special/different case from us...we make far too many asspumtions about culture, and "them being like us" in the false hope of "global citizenship". We're not "all the same" - not even within our own borders.

Imagine the USA, if all 50 states were individual nations that all spoke different languages...then we'd BE Europe. That's why I'm keen on finding and sticking to solutions based from within our own culture, and eschewing "globalism" or "competing" internationally. Historical context matters, and it matters to all involved in their turn. There isn't any "one" solution for "one world". Never will be. Live, learn, correct mistakes - but do it in context.

There could actually be a positive if the U.S. dollar falls some more. European countries will start manufacturing here. They don't have to deal with ridiculous labor laws or VAT.


I don't think that would be "good", but I do think it's going to happen.

And I don't think we'll get any manufacturing moving here a) because we won't be backing off on our wage base anytime; b) because nobody has the money to do big startups; c) because the green-meanies won't let anyone with any industrial bent build a factory here.

And besides that, I've already heard trial balloons being floated about instituting an American VAT...hold on to your ***, things are about to get rougher before they get any better...

I anticipate a drastically reduced American standard of living if we don't wake up and get back to the core values that made us who we are in the first place. And even then, it's gonna take time.



That
would also eliminate the political argument for keeping teacher's salaries as low as they are because of the summer break.


To this day I think the "teaching pay is low" is total bull***. There's a lot of teachers outside of school can't function in society either. Need more money? Take advantage of the 180 days you are not working.


....if you can find a job. I watched my dad do it - I'm sure he'd rather have been steadily and stably employed.

I never understood why they needed Summers off until I became a teacher. You really need to mentally recuperate. I don't think people can truly understand what they go through until they become a teacher.


I can't really sympathize with that argument...my cubemate's son is in training to be a Navy SEAL right now...you want "stress"? Go fight a war sometime...or work a job where you can actually kill somebody if you make a mistake on any given day...


And I'd like to see a return to the classic/basics in art, shop, home ec, PE, history, etc. in K-12. More time spent on those is less time available for filling kid's heads with nonsense politics in the classroom.


I think there's too much advanced stuff when they aren't ready for it when it comes to grade school.


Like I said - the teacher has to be able to recognize the student's latent abilities and match those ability to the level the student can achieve at...and have the freedom to do so.

If a music teacher or even a private music teacher had to follow that flow, they would not have any students. It's like introducing the A major scale on Clarinet when just gotten to the point of getting the reed set correctly and has yet to make a good sound.


That's probably why I never got taught any music theory in K-12.

Sometime in 1st-2nd grade they showed us how to sing vocal harmony - but they didn't tell us what we were doing...didn't even use the word "harmony". Just gave us examples of notes to hit. Then for drill, the teacher sang a note and we had to sing the harmony note along with her...she went down the line and told each of us - "that's not it", or "you're doing it". I was one of the kids that got it...but I have no idea how or why.



Single biggest issue there is women registering for the draft - you'd be surprised at how many parents don't even realize that their sons still have to register on or before reaching 18.

With women as ingrained in the military as they are now, it's another huge equality issue that both political parties are sweeping under the rug - I think the issue of women having to register for the draft will become a debate hotter than abortion, once the debate comes...and it's going to have to.


I forgot about that.


....it's ok - they're working hard to make you forget.



As much as I HATE the cold, I'm seriously considering buying an H2 Hummer and moving to someplace like Washington state or Wyoming...someplace where people don't want to go and will just leave me alone...so I can maintain my freedom (anybody remember freedom back east? Doesn't seem like it...). I can always chop wood and build a fire...Alaska...yeah...if anybody tries to stop me chopping wood I can shoot the bastards...


I hear Oklahoma is nice.

Oklahoma is a beautiful state. I've passed through it a time or two, but I need to look into it from a tax/retirement standpoint. It's all gonna be about finances when it comes to it.

And then there's that smack-in-the-middle-of-tornado alley thing...I haven't forgotten about tornado alley - gimme an earthquake instead of a tornado ANY day.

--
- Rufus
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