Re: High action on an acoustic

"Joe" <jonathanpoulin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:32bdfd47-8d8c-4f3c-88a6-e11dc5ddec6b@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 14 jan, 13:55, "Wayne" <paperea...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Awww, Joe! I know you can do this. There's actually more to it than I
explained. Haha! If I didn't try to explain it as I did, knowing our
language differences, there would be a deluge of posts and we'd never get
you playing again. Remember the "saddle and the bridge"?

"Well, I think the truss rod is ok because between 1st and 12th fret the
action is excellent. If I check before removing material that both old and
new saddle are the same height, just sanding a bit will not do the job?"

When you say "action" between the 1st and 12th fret, is that when the
guitar
is tuned?
Make sure that the neck is as straight as you can get it, explained in the
previous post, by adjusting the truss rod with the strings off. That is
the
starting adjustment of the truss rod. When you put the strings on and tune
the guitar, the tension will bow the neck slightly. Sometimes more than
slightly. The distance of the fret to the string at the mid point between
the 1st and 12th/14th fret should be very small. You should be able to see
light under it, but just barely. As an example, a sheet of regular paper
is
.004". Someone mentioned a business card. They range anywhere from .008"
to .016". That distance is O.K. too. Just make sure you loosen the strings
each time you make an adjustment. Then re-tune.

Sorry to disappoint everyone, there is no "magic" measurement. Just a
starting point. Factory set ups are factory set ups. They make them the
same way for each guitar as quickly as they can so they can be played and
sold as quickly as they can. Yeah, yeah, there are always exceptions. A
music store has incentives to sell the guitar too. They may do some work
on
it after it arrives from the factory. Depends how much the guitar is worth
and how much of a profit is involved. Think a music store is going to
invest a lot of time in a $60 guitar?

The distance mentioned above will depend on the string gauge, the guitar
scale i.e. 3/4, and the characteristics of the neck. Don't get bent
(forgive the pun) out of shape over it. It's just a starting adjustment.
You're going to change it.

The contact between the bottom of the saddle and the surface it sits on is
of great importance. Clean the slot out. It should be so clean you could
operate in there if you had to. Violin makers take great care in making
their bridges. Mostly because the violin top is curved. The contact
between the bridge and the sound board directly relates to the quality of
the energy transferred. Just a little dirt will negate all the effort of
making sure the bottom of the saddle is flat and the snug fit that makes
it
look so pretty.

Who knows, you might like the sound and feel of your guitar more than a
$500
guitar. Hope this helps everyone.

For more tips on destroying/repairing your acoustic
guitar:http://members.dslextreme.com/users/papereater/Ovation.htm

Wayne

"Joe" <jonathanpou...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:5367ca61-d2aa-4efd-8e74-cb8cc4e5d149@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 13 jan, 19:54, "Wayne" <paperea...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



Bravo! You're not screwed after all! Yes, there are mathematics involved
here. I'm sure there are formulas to determine the different aspects and
ratios and put them into numbers. I know none of them.

Keep in mind that all 3 adjustments mentioned in my previous post should
be
verified and/or performed together.

Chances are that you won't find a saddle to fit your guitar exactly. If
you
have to rework the length, make sure the ends of the saddle match the
slot
ends and that it fits snugly. Most of the ends I've seen are rounded.

The arc at the top of the saddle should be very close to the arc of the
fret
board. This can be verified by laying a straight edge on the frets and
extending it over the soundhole to the saddle. You have to be a little
careful here because on many guitars the higher (12 and up) frets take
more
of a dip towards the surface of the soundboard. So, make sure your truss
rod is adjusted so the frets (1-12) are as flat as you can get them. The
points where the bottom of the straight edge meet the saddle is the
"extended in space" plane of your fret board. Make a line with a sharp
pencil if you like. You should have no problem here. If the straight
edge
does not contact the saddle, you need a taller saddle, shims or you've
got
other problems not yet recognized.

At this point, if your guitar had strings on it, all of the strings
would
touch every fret (1-12) and travel through the "extended in space" plane
to
the line on the saddle. The goal here is to remove enough material from
the
saddle while maintaining the general arc of the fret board. Your strings
will end up somewhere above the imaginary line. Just get it close for
now.
Make sure the bottom of the saddle is flat, smooth and 90 degrees to the
sides of the saddle. It should not rock back and forth or side to side.

It's a time consuming process making the final adjustments because
you'll
have strings on (and maybe off) the guitar and tune it many times. It's
good
practice. Tune the guitar. Tug on the strings and tune it again. Check
the
bow of the neck and make any adjustments after you loosen the strings as
I
mentioned in the previous post. Adjust each string in the saddle to suit
your playing style my removing material below each string. Some may need
more or less than others. You knew that didn't you? Then there's the
question of the grooves the string sits in. If the strings will stay
where
they're supposed to while your playing, avoid setting them in grooves. A
little nick in the top of the saddle may be all you need to hold a
string
in
place. Making a groove for the string to sit in should be done with
proper
tools. I've used a razor blade before and was never caught by the
luthier
police.

Getting the feel and sound of the guitar just like you want it can take
several string changes over time. Depending on your playing style,
you'll
re-adjust the bow and maybe remove more material from the saddle. Just
remember that it's geometry and there is a point of diminishing returns.
Remove too much from the saddle and then you'll have to shim it or start
over. Too much bow and the guitar again becomes difficult to play.

Hope this helps. Let us know how it turns out.

For more tips on destroying/repairing your acoustic

guitar:http://members.dslextreme.com/users/papereater/Ovation.htm





Wayne

"Joe" <jonathanpou...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:5f2bce2e-9550-468e-8a87-7680fc18d0cd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 11 jan, 13:45, "Wayne" <paperea...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thanks David and Joe. My mistake. I call the whole thing a bridge. I
do
the
same thing with electrics until I explain to someone that you have to
turn
a
screw on the thingy-ma-bob to adjust the intonation.

Let me review. You thought the action/playability/string height was
too
high at 1/8" at the 12th fret and was wondering if it should/could be
lowered. An earlier poster was correct when they said 1/8" really
wasn't
that much. It would do you good to play on a guitar like that.
Toughens
up
the finger tips and the muscles in your hand.. Then you tried to
remove
the
saddle that drops into the bridge but couldn't so you made some
grooves
in
the saddle and have 2 strings that are giving you problems. The 2
strings
don't touch the saddle. I suggested that if you couldn't remove the
saddle
(I called it a bridge) then to try using a 2 part epoxy to replace the
material that you removed. Is that about right?

So, here we are. At this point, you're pretty much screwed and what's
done
is done. Everything that all the posters have written is pretty much
correct and everything still applies. What to do. What to do.

If in fact you have a drop in saddle and if it is glued in, look to
see
if
there is any space (however small) on either end if the saddle. You
would
then take a piece of wood that you could hold in your hand like a
microphone, put the end of the wood against the end of the saddle that
has
no gap. Then take a big hammer (kidding). Give the end of the wood in
your
hand a deliberate and measured wack with the palm of your hand. If
that
doesn't work hit the wood with something with a little mass that you
can
control. You may also want to tape off the area the piece of wood
(broom
handle?) will contact so you don't make any marks. All you're trying
to
do
is break the bond of the glue. It doesn't take much. If there is no
gap
(however small) on the other end of the saddle, this probably will not
work
but it's worth a try. Maybe you'll get lucky and find out that someone
has
spilled some beer and some of it ended up under the saddle. If you
have
the
type of saddle that is in a groove and open on both ends, it's the
same
proceedure, just easier.

Screws/nuts/bolts on the inside? Does it look like the bridge is
bonded
to
the soundboard? I'd remove the fasteners and see if the bridge is
comes
off. Perhaps the saddle can be accessed from the other side of the
bridge.
Either way, the fasteners can always go back on and if the bridge
doesn't
come off and the bridge may be easier to work on if the bridge does
come
off.

$60? If you still can't get the saddle out of the bridge I have more
methods to my maddness. At the very least, you can still put
everything
back the way it was and fill the 2 offending grooves with the 2 part
epoxy.
Good luck!

For more tips on destroying/repairing your acoustic guitar:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/papereater/Ovation.htm

"Joe" <jonathanpou...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message


news:903631be-fe30-4122-9202-89b3ff576bb6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 10 jan, 16:27, "Wayne Allenegui"

...

plus de détails »- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -- Masquer le texte des
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- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Wayne,
Well I think my last post is gone somewhere. There was an error with
my browser or something. I answered that pretty technical post.

I just want to know if I will have to re-adjust the truss rod (relief)
if I lower the saddle? Maybe I missed something! ;-) Before starting
the job on the guitar the relief was ok. The strings was very close to
the fretboard from 1st to 12th/14th fret.

Also it's true I paid the guitar 60$. However this is a Copley guitar
from Simba Instruments. I think the make pretty good instruments. They
are based at Nashville.

Thanks.
_________

If the relief is where you want it (make sure you're pressing the string
down to the fret at both the 1st and 12th-14th fret and measuring the gap in
between), you shouldn't have to re-do it again after making your
saddle/bridge/nut adjustments.


.

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