Re: question about teaching and learning guitar (Master Musicians)

"Stephen Calder" <calder9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:42ecb294$0$847$61c65585@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> I'm not in any camp. At this point, insufficient data has been provided.
>
> Those who passionately contend that he should or should not be taught to
> read music notation do so mainly on the basis that they themselves do or
> do not read it, and most of them can be safely ignored.
>
> What does the kid want? He's old enough to have a say in what kind of
> music he would like to learn, and there's a starting point. Kids today
> have endless distractions. A music teacher has to compete with tv,
> sport, internet, computer games and a host of entertainments that
> require little or no effort, either mental or physical. A kid who's
> forced to learn doesn't enjoy learning. They need a good reason why. If
> you can show him that it's worth it, and he agrees, and offer it to him
> little by little so he's not overwhelmed, you'll be doing him a favour.
> But again, it depends a lot on the kid. If he has serious ambitions to
> be a virtuoso, he'll be eager to learn to read. If he just wants to have
> fun, maybe he doesn't need it right away.
>
> All those who think they have an absolute right answer and that one is
> right for every kid are kidding themselves.
>
> --
> Stephen
> Byron Bay, Australia

Stephen,

We are not that much in disagreement. I'm not sure if you read my previous
response
to you, as the only response I got was from an ignoramus who admitted that
he didn't bother reading it. I agree with having to keep the child focused,
and that there are lot of distractions.

However, as far as him having serious ambitions to be a virtuoso or wanting
to have fun, there are very few 8-year-old kids that even know what virtuoso
means, and they certainly aren't eager to learn to read. They're not
necessarily eager to *not* learn to read, either. This is something that is
far better to actually witness the kids learning and see what attitude the
kids have. I learned this in music education classes where it's important to
understand the development stages of the age group. I *do* agree with you
that it depends a lot on the kid. There are very few kids who are ready to
take on the work ethic and the ambition to be a virtuoso. There are far more
kids than one would realize that possess flexibility on how they learn, and
many of them do take the teacher's word for it that reading is the best way
to learn music, allowing them to make more decisions later on as to how to
utilize their knowledge.

And no, he's really *not* old enough to have a say in what kind of music he
would like to learn, no more than he is old enough to have a say in what he
learns in Social Studies, Reading, and Mathematics. When I was teaching
public school, I found that many of these children had no idea what was out
there for music. They hadn't had much of a music program before, knew none
of the folk songs that we all take for granted. I'm not sure what songs are
assumed in Australia, but I know that here people are assumed to have
learned or at least know of songs such as "My Country ?Tis Of Thee"(the
music of which actually came from a German hymnal), "This Land Is Your
Land", "Michael Row The Boat Ashore", etc. Music is a large part of one's
heritage, and it's not to be left to the children to decide where that's
going to go.

Now, if he's got a particular interest in a particular type of music, then
yes, I would say include it in his studies. The idea is to teach the child
how to make music, on the instrument that he's chosen. Teaching him music
includes other types of music that he may not hear on the radio, too. This
is not "forcing" him to do anything, it's opening his eyes to what music
encompasses.

Below is a reprint of what I posted earlier, also somewhat agreeing with
what you have to say. I'm assuming you may have missed it, but here it is
again:

From: "Mike C." <Funkifized@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: question about teaching and learning guitar (Master Musicians)
Date: Saturday, July 30, 2005 2:46 AM

"Stephen Calder" <calder9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:42eb1729$0$839$61c65585@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> I'm not anti reading, I have consistently extolled its benefits. Just
> don't force it on kids to a point where they are discouraged because
> they don't seem to be learning music.
>
> They need a hook. They need to be making recognisable musical sounds
> pretty quickly.
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen
> Byron Bay, Australia

Okay, then I can dig where you're coming from, but I don't necessarily agree
with your viewpoint totally.

Recognizable sounds don't have to totally encompass pop radio. It's not
forcing it on kids to the point of discouragement when you present them with
a lesson plan that begins with reading. When you have a kid that barely
knows which side of the guitar to strum, you find that you have to be
specific about how to hold the guitar, how to press the strings to the
fretboard, how to strum the strings, etc. It's certainly appropriate to
present the guitar using a few notes at a time. I go with one of the
beginner books, which usually starts with the E, F, and G notes on the first
string.

It's actually a lot easier for kids to have a written symbol for the note
than to remember the note name. Making recognizable musical sounds can
certainly be attained by just having them learn little motifs with the few
notes that they've learned. Believe it or not, most students are okay with
not learning songs they listen to right from the beginning. It doesn't take
that long, usually 2-3 weeks to get them to be able to play "Michael Row The
Boat Ashore", "Aura Lee"(which is the melody to "Love Me Tender"),
Beethoven's "Song Of Joy"(which is actually one of his symphonies, but I
can't remember which one, it being 2:23 AM right now), etc. I'm sure I can't
begin to get across to you how many students, adults as well as kids, are
thrilled with being able to play "Song Of Joy", because the recognize the
melody. It's that simple. Sometimes they memorize it, but overall I show
them that it's much easier to memorize how to play the notes on the page and
then they can just put the notes in whatever order they are on the page. As
much as someone else here seems to think that I'm doing the students a
disservice and while it may seem that I'm forcing students to do stuff that
they don't want to do, I can't remember the last time I lost a student
because he wasn't getting what he wants. No, students don't come into
lessons wanting to play Beethoven, but honestly, they don't usually know
what it is that they want. I suggest the book, I show them that the pieces
are not that difficult, they like the fact that I can play well, and they
are okay with doing what is in the book. The book is easy to follow, gives
the student an idea where they are going, and allows them to look back on
old material and really see how far they've come along.

I also promise them that I *will* eventually show them songs that they are
more interested in, as long as they put the work in to do the academic
stuff, which they are mostly okay with. I have them do chords much earlier
than the book would, and explain that most of what guitar playing is made up
of is playing chords, and that we're starting on them early because they're
physically difficult to play, so I want them to get a headstart.

When we get to a duet in the book, it actually gets them making music a
helluva lot earlier than they would just trying to learn tunes that they
hear on the radio. Playing even a few phrases in harmony with the 2nd guitar
part(played by me) gives them a boost and something to work towards.

We could have this same argument with a Todd LaRoc angle: don't push the kid
into playing chords because he probably wants to rock out with power chords,
and you'll discourage him by making him do something he doesn't want to do.
Are we in agreement that students should learn chords? Keeping students
motivated has a lot more to do with giving them the right encouragement and
helping them find the optimal way to do things than it does with allowing
them to play tunes that they know, by ear or by tablature. Most often
students that are hooked on internet tab are playing tunes using atrocious
fingerings and will have to more work relearning what they've incorrectly
learned. Learning the basics in a methodical manner is much more valuable,
and doing this in the midst of learning to read is the ideal way to do it.
Also remember that especially younger students are in a learning phase of
their life, and it wasn't that long ago that they learned the alphabet, and
are probably still learning vocabulary words. When presented a new thing to
learn but presented with a teacher who is willing to help them with the
easiest way to memorize these things, they're comfortable with that.

--
Mike C.
http://mikecrutcher.com
Teaching: http://findmeateacher.com/contact.php?id=1107

"As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I
sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking
and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way."
- Jack Handey


.

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