Re: SWR amp

On Jun 11, 2:57 pm, Les Cargill <lcargil...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
MegaSwing wrote:
On Jun 7, 11:00 am, Les Cargill<lcargil...@xxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
SotR wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:30 pm, Les Cargill<lcargil...@xxxxxxxxxxx>    wrote:
JimmyM wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 17:23:51 -0700 (PDT), SotR
<suitebarbershopquar...@xxxxxxxxx>      wrote:

On Jun 6, 3:57 pm, de...@xxxxxxxxx (Derek Tearne) wrote:
SotR<suitebarbershopquar...@xxxxxxxxx>      wrote:
Got my first chance to try the SWR 350 amp today. My band finally got
to audition a drummer. He was loud but I even so I could hardly hear
the amp. I was playing through my GK 2x12 (500 watts RMS). I had the
amp up to 8, which was about as far as I could go because it was
clipping.

When you say that amp was up to 8 what do you mean?  Most amps have a
pre-amp level and a master gain.  Where they both at 8?  Or just one?

If it seems like a larger speaker system will create a bigger
sound with more air movement I might still buy it because it does
sound really good.

More speakers will always work better.   I think it would be interesting
to try it with an SWR speaker cab.

But if you have to buy new speakers then it's not so much of a bargain
really.

But what makes me leery is we were playing in his
garage, not like an outside stage or anything.

Playing in a small enclosed space is always the hardest - especially
with a drummer with too loud drums.  Your ears will be assaulted by
cymbal splash and loud percussive beats making it hard to hear yourself.
I often find I'm turning up in rehearsal compared to playing with the
same band in a larger room.  These days I try and be disciplined in
rehearsal, stand a little away from the drummer and put my musicians ear
plugs in instead of turning up.

Having said that, 350 watts into a 2x10 should really be ample.

--- Derek

--
Derek Tearne - de...@xxxxxxxxx
Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealandhttp://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
d'Groove: 12 piece party/covers bandhttp://www.dGroove.co.nz/

Yes Derek it does have gain and master. I tried many variations but at
some point both were up to at least 8. I couldn't go any higher
because it clipped like crazy. Plus is has a fair amount of knobs to
tweak so I tried to gain percieved volume with adjustments but to no
avail. The amp is just downright weak. Like I said the drummer was
loud but not anywhere near to where he should have been maiking 350
watts of bass disappear. We were playing at a typical 100 peson
capacity barroom volume.
My last drummer was truly a man-mountain drum killer, I mean the guy
should have been an NFL linebacker or something. He had a huge set of
drums with double bass and everything. I was using a 200 watt Hartke
1x15 combo and never had any problem hearing myself or competing with
him.  Sure wish I would have kept that amp now.

I don't think SWR's are underpowered.  I think they just put so much
energy into the lows that it gets diverted away from the frequency
ranges that give you volume.

In that case, I have to wonder if the 2X10 isn't high pass filtering
where all the energy is going. Can't you drop a 100 Hz shelf down 6 or
12 dB on that puppy using the onboard EQ? Then what happens?

--
Les Cargill

Actually I am using a 2x12 with Eminence bass speakers in a GK cab.

Oops! I'd read 2X10. No, I did not review the entire thread before
posting :)

500 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. But I also tried it with the Peavey 1x15 at
our normal rehearsal spot and got the same results.
SotR

Ah. Then it's not due to "throwing too much bass".

--
Les Cargill

I submit that if 350 watts is not enough for any situation other than
a stadium-size environment, it is very likely that everybody is
playing too loud.  At 350 watts, a power deficiency is more than
likely an EQ problem, which you will not overcome with more power.
I've been surprised to hear 65-watt amps sound great in large
churches.  A little bass really goes a long way, and 'too loud'
happens quickly.  Just because it does not sound loud enough to you
onstage standing near the amp does not meant you aren't thundering
loud 20 feet away.  It is possible to be so close to it that you can't
really 'hear' it in an overall sense.

I have a rule of thumb that if I sound too good to myself onstage, I
need to worry about how I'm sounding out in the house, because there
is a strong chance it doesn't sound nearly as good out there.  All
ultra-high wattage gives you is headroom, not a whole lot more usable
volume.  There should be a limit on the volume you apply to any rig;
each one has a sweet spot, and that sweet spot is NEVER at maximum
output.  My volume settings are always within a couple of points from
gig to gig, whether the gig is large or small.  I won't compete with
guitarists for volume, even though I'm sure I could drown out the band
if I chose to.  That's just stupid, and what would it prove?  It would
just generate new complaints about volume.

Hopefully, you're under the guitars in frequency and you're running
clean enough to avoid clipping. A 65 watt amp won't likely do that.
And  from 65 to 1000 watts is about 12 dB.

Cabinet efficiency has more to do with volume than a nominal power
rating.  Don't add more speakers.  Get more efficient ones.

A band that cannot balance its sound at a sensible volume is often an
unwelcome guest.

My experience is that a great many players have no idea of how to
balance from the stage.

Edward G.
Baltimore, MD

--
Les Cargill

Hopefully, you're under the guitars in frequency and you're running clean enough to avoid clipping. A 65 watt amp won't likely do that. And from 65 to 1000 watts is about 12 dB.

Of course there could be no competition in the lowest registers.
Other than a keyboard, what else could that be?

I witnessed this as a spectator. It was some Fender 65 combo and a
common Fender bass. The 65 watts were clearly audible throughout the
fairly large, high-ceiling room, in a mix that included drums, keys,
guitar, and a choir. Was it dominant? No. Was there a lot of
headroom? No. But it was a respectable bass sound from a good
player, and it wasn't about showing off. The music was well-served.
A little bass really goes a long way.

My experience is that a great many players have no idea of how to balance from the stage.

Then, Advantage Me. That has to be paramount in your thinking: What's
going to sound good 'out there'? Not What will I put out there
because it feels good to me. There's a craft to it. It isn't all
art. After a few drinks it's all up for grabs anyway.

Sometimes, when I go to the symphony (once in a while), I marvel at
how subdued the bass seems. However, when taken in context, it does
totally do the job. The acoustic timbre makes it interesting and
makes up for the lack of absolute bottom and volume. The musicality
of it is undeniable.

Sometimes I want to be dominant, but mostly I just want to be in the
mix. I will ALWAYS be heard, because bass is bass. Nothing can negate
it, not even a loud guitar, lest he doesn't want to be invited back.
A 65-watt amp merely keeps you in the mix. You can never dominate.
There is something to be said for that sound.

All this having been said, I would never have a 65-watt amp, just
because it isn't versatile enough, but it doesn't automatically suck
for its relatively low power.

Modern players are definitely spoiled. Not that long ago a 300-watt
amp was expensive and nearly exotic. Now it is regularly scoffed at
for having no lungs.

Edward G.
Baltimore, MD
.

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