Re: Speaker Cables

"Mike Rieves" <mriev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:A07el.522$yb.441@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Most monitor rigs I run use NL4 connectors to run biamped wedges. So
does
anything run by Clair Bros, Jason Sound, etc., etc. Please Mike, don't
argue
your fool head off about this.. you're just wrong.

I clearly stated that it had been many years since I had done sound work
for road bands. You want to run 4 conductor wiring for biamplified
systems,
go ahead, but I wouldn't.

Go check the real world, Mike. For someone who talked about how slip-sliding
your volume knob doesn't cause audible issues so why worry about it, you
sure seem to be going to the other extreme in this connversation.

So, whatever happened to best practice? Crosstalk on long cable runs is
real
and it is significant. Just because you may not hear the bleed between the
lows, mids and highs doesn't mean it isn't there. You guys were arguing
about noise 20 dB below the ambient noise level being significant, so why
is
it okay in this application? Some consistancy here would be nice.

If I'm being inconsistent, so are you, Mike. I don't think I am. Best
Practice in this case: Manageable cable runs with Zero audible signal
degradation.

Go listen to a modern sound system. Go check how it's wired. You're putting
yourself up as an expert talking about something you have negligeable
knowledge about. Stop. And no, I wasn't arguing about your made up
numbers... but you go ahead and read whatever you'd like into what I was
saying in the other thread.

I will admit this: I wear many hats in the music world. The way I treat my
Bass rig is different in some ways from how I treat a FOH gig, or a Monitor
gig, or a Lighting gig. My list of "best practices" changes based on what
hat I'm wearing at the time. That may be where you're seeing
"inconsistencies" - at which point I cheerfully admit they exits! LOL

So, what you're suggesting, just to be very clear: You'd rather drop
four
14-gauge zip cords, with 1/4" jacks, instead of one 8-conductor cable,
with
one NL8 connector. Nice. Glad I'm not on your crew! LOL

No, I'd rather drop four 12 gauge zip cords with speakons, thank you.

LOL - okey dokey! Again, I'm glad I'm not on your crew, Mike! We'd be having
words, fella! :-)

Tying the four
conductors into two parallel pairs? Okay, but I doubt the benefits will
match the increased cost, we're talking $40.00 per hundred feet.

Please read above. And then, be polite, and type the words "Oh! I see.
Thanks for letting me know how things work in the REAL pro audio realm!
I've
learned something today!" Prove you're man enough to admit you're wrong,
fella!
And, do some quick maff, Mike: $.44 per foot for zip cord. Two runs =
$.88
per foot. I just saved $.04 doing it my way, AND... I only have one run
to
worry about.

Here's my original post, in response to someone who definitely wasn't
running pro equipment.
"14 gauge is the smallest size I'd consider using for speaker cables,
you'll get some loss of power on longer runs, but they'll do the job. I
prefer 12 guage. The signal is so large and the impedance so low that
sheilding is unnecessary. Plain old lamp cord works fine, no need for
anything fancy."
It wasn't about pro audio, it was about weekend warriors doing gigs and
most likely trying to get by as cheaply as possible. I suggested something
that would work fine and do it cheaply. However, because it was me, you
guys
had to jump in and take it to extremes. I was never talking about pro
systems, except when someone that pro systems never used 1/4 phone jacks,
and I mentioned a few that did.

Weekend warriors want good clean stages as well, Mike. And, it's cheaper
than you're suggestion. Luckily, the world has changed, and is now a better
place. Get outside for a while and check it out. You'll love the changes.

Here's some more info: I can get SJO rated cable two-conductor cable for
$.36 per foot in 14 ga. STILL a better deal than your zip.

Back when I was buying zip cord for speaker wire, we were paying around
60
bucks for a 500 foot roll of 14 gauge zip cord. Two conductor round
extension cord was more than twice that.

Ah, the good old days. How is that relevant to today's market? Back in the
50's you could buy zip. Cool. Probably about as good as you could get
(reasonably) for the jobs you were doing. However, the world has moved
forward, and there are better ways to do business. Look into it...

It means that, once again, you've taken something I said about a specific
situation to ridiculous extremes. You *should* have taken what I said as
it
was meant, but somehow, I don't think you *can* do that.

The problem is that, once again, you've stated something as a fact, when the
reality is your myopic view of the world is still just that... out of date,
incongruous when compared to current practices in an industry you admit you
left long ago, and basically... worthless. Had you offered something germane
to the conversation, and then not dug your heels in, perhaps people would
respect your commentary.

I don't think you *can* do that, however. ;-)

All right, all insults and poking you aside, here's the thing: You're right,
Mike. Zip cord will get the job done. Some zip cord will lay in a decent
manner, but you'll have to work harder than running to Home Depot to find
it. The good news is there are 2, 4 & 8 conductor versions of decent
quality, reasonably priced cable, which lays flat, stays very flexible in
the cold, etc. You CAN continue to use zip if you'd like, and I'm sure there
are people who will, but in the end, the MORE professional way to go, as
determined by the pro-audio realm, is to use the excellent and extremely
functional tools available today.

If you're building rack-n-stack sound systems, as many people still do, NL4
& NLF8 Speakon connectors with appropriate cabling can be a God-send. You
run one cable, with short jumpers between subs, mid and/ar high boxes, and
end up with a very neat, clean stage, excellent sound, and easy cable
management.

Or, you can go the route you suggest: Run a bunch of NL4 connectors, only
utilizing pin 1+/1-, ignoring pin 2+/2-, and pay more for the
harder-to-find, not-as-manageable cable. Oh, and in the end? It actually
costs more to do it your way.

I own cables with 1/4" ends, using 16 gauge zip. I even use them
occasionally. They're in my bin labeled "Legacy Cables" - which is where I
keep all sorts of weird stuff I don't use much anymore. Sometimes, it's just
the thing to get through a job.

Hopefully, we're on the same page now. You can back off the "best practice"
nonsense, because you don't mean it anyway, right? You were pissed at me for
calling you out, and that's fine. Let's just agree now, and let it go?
Ball's in your court.
--
Corey Benson

Radio by dogs, for dogs:
http://www.HenryAndBuster.com/

http://www.curbsideproductions.com/


.

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