Re: Sound Installation Advice


"coreybenson" <coreybenson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1195053711.572233.77240@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Nov 13, 10:38 pm, "Mike Rieves" <mr...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
You're a dumbass.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1197516

Of all the people who have bought these speakers, one guy complains about
this and lies about the speakers having a built-in noise gate, and you
believe him. You're the dumbass!

No, you're proving you can't read again, Mike. Even the tech support
person at JBL admitted there's a problem with the PRX series. Call
them and verify, if you'd like. Their phone number (and mine) are
easily available on the net, with a modicum of effort.

No! That one guy said that some annonymous tech support person at JBL
admitted that there was a problem, all you have is the guy's patently
hearsay word in it. Even if what he said were true, there are plenty of
other powered speakers in the same price range that would do the job. You
asked for specifics and I gave you something off-the-cuff, and I told you up
front that it was an off-the-cuff suggestion. If someone wants to pay me for
the work, I'll be glad to do the research and come up with a complete
design.

Dumbass.

So have I, but apparently, the difference is that I know how to make
them
sound good under a wide variety of situations.

Yup. You're great. I've never made a FOH system sound good. Thanks!
All my repeat customers must be wrong!

Look, you started the attack on my work, all I did was reply in kind. The
truth is that you have no clue as to the quality of my work, so if you don't
want your abilities insulted, don't insult mine. You disagree with me, fine!
Just try to do it civilly and without implying that I don't know what I'm
talking about.

I didn't try to force him, I just pointed out some advantages, and
you're
welcome to think whatever you want.

I didn't try to force him either, Mike. You already know what I think
of you.

Yeah, and if you actually knew me, you'd quickly realize that your low
opinion of me is unwarranted.

Nope, I'm allowing for all eventualities, a properly designed FOH type
system will meet or exceed all his requirements, including the
possibility
of having bands at some point, which is mentioned as a possibility. The
system I suggested will cost no more, and probably less that a
distributed
system, properly designed and set up, it will sound just as good as a
distributed system, and it will be considerably more versatile.

No you're not. You're designing a system that will look/feel/sound
like every other PA of it's type. Which, by Brian and the owner's
definition, is BAD. Because it IS bad, Mike. Can a good FOH system
sound amazing? Sure... but you will ALWAYS have places where you've
compromised Clean for Efficiency. I understand that... I truly don't
think you do.

Nope, not true, especially nowadays, and especially in a small room like
Brian is talking about. Unless the room were "L" shaped or something like
that, a well designed FOH type system can provide very good coverage, with
great quality sound throughout the room. The advantages are more versatility
and more headroom, at about the same price.

As for your comments about having lots of experience installing
systems in clubs, well... I don't believe you, Mike. You may have
installed two systems, from what you've posted on here... but that
ain't 'Lots', as you claim in your post below.

From what you've posted, it's possible that you haven't installed
even
one good system, if you don't think an FOH type system can't sound good
for
background music in a small club.

Drop me a line. I'm perfectly willing to give you references. My email
is quite easy to find, as are links to references of my work.

I don't need references from you, I believe you, I just insulted you
because you insulted me.

I didn't say a FOH CAN'T sound good for background music. I said a
distributed system will sound better. You disagree. You're wrong. I've
installed both. I'm not sure you've done anything but been a hack FOH
engineer in marginal clubs, if even that.

And I'm not sure that you've done anything but be a poser on Usenet.
However, unlike you, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Let
me repeat one more time, if Brian had said that the system would only be
used for background music, I wouldn't have suggested a FOH type system, but
because he said that there was the possibility of live acxoustic
performances and even bands down the road, I suggested a more versitle
desing that would accomodate any potential use the club owner might have for
the system. I think mine was a practical suggestion, and nothing posted
since would make me think otherwise. Brian is free to do whatever he and the
club owner decide, I just wanted him to keep in mind the advantages either
way. You had the distributed system advantages covered, so I chose to point
out the advantages of an FOH type system. There was no need for you to take
it personal and start insulting me.

Apparently, I understand more that you do, I understand that either
system
will work well in the environment Brian is speakeing of and that the FOH
type system will be more versatile.

A FOH system in the room he's described will be exactly that, Mike: A
FRONT OF HOUSE SYSTEM... loud at the front, where BY THEIR PHYSICAL
NATURE ALONE the sound will be peaky and inconsistent. By crossing
over between a 15" driver and a 1" driver, you WILL have issues,
specifically in the vocal area. Even an 8" driver to a 1" driver will
have problems in this area... Is it workable, if you're willing to
sacrifice high quality sound? Sure... If your goal is efficiency, not
clarity.

I've mixed on just about every type of system you can name or
describe, Mike. I spend between 20-50 hours per week in my studio,
plus do at least 2-4 FOH gigs per month, RIGHT NOW, with current,
state-of-the-industry gear.

Fine, then you should know the advantages of FOH over distributed when doing
anything which reqires someone to mix, as in live acoustic acts or bands.

I GET what Brian is trying to do. You don't. Period. End of story...
stop your yapping. I also agree that the typical FOH-style system
you're suggesting will NOT provide what the owner wants, and what
Brian would like to see installed.

Where did I ever say that I was talking about "typical" FOH systems? I was
talking about a specialized custom system designed and set up for doing
everything the owner might want or need, now and in the future.

You make one good point (late in the game, as usual) about using the
system for JUST vocals... but, since I've actually USED a system in
the manner Brian's suggesting, I'd say it probably won't matter,
Mike.


And I say it probably would matter. Don't get me wrong, it's possible to
design a distributed system that will work with live acoustic music where
everything is miked, and even with bands. However, you aren't going to do it
within the owner's budget constraints.

The speakers I suggested may not be the right solution, but your one
and only suggestion isn't either.

I made general suggestions, as did you, my "one and only suggestion" as
you put it was an offhand suggestion for one possible speaker system to use,
nowhere did I say it was the only system that would work.

You're not 100% positive, I think that the JBL's you suggest will work
just fine for background music, but you may need a lot more of them than
you
think, unless the crowd at that club is much quieter and better mannered
than most folks who go to clubs to drink and party.

Mike, it's not a frigging sports bar. 8-10 of the boxes I suggested
will be louder than they'll ever need... but there are other boxes out
there. If they're not enough, it'll be pretty obivious fairly
quickly... and they can use something else.

Yeah they can use something else, and thay'll have to pay for that
something else, along with what the distributed system has already cost
them. As for the noise level, Nashville had several good small jazz clubs
back in the '60 and '70s and the corwds were just as noisy as at any other
culb where people were drinking and partying.

Shut up and leave the argument, Mike. Your suggestion has been
evaluated and summarily dismissed. You're adding nothing to the
conversation, and neither am I, at this point. Now you're just
incredibly irritating... as usual.

The problem is the "summarily", my suggestion was dismissed out of hand,
without the consideration that an investment of money and time deserves.
I hope the system Brian decides on works out for the club owner. As for
irritating, it wouldn't have been necessary for me to go through all this
had my suggestion been taken seriously in the beginning. I would have made
the suggestion, answered any questions that might have arisen and that would
have been the end of it. The issue arose when you started dismissing my
suggestion out of hand and implying that I didn't know what I was talking
about, had you not done that, this discussion would have been over long ago.


.

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