Re: Sound Installation Advice


"coreybenson" <coreybenson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1194961441.498842.230390@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Nov 12, 10:38 pm, "Mike Rieves" <mr...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"coreybenson" <coreyben...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1194885846.798077.240850@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



On Nov 11, 1:35 am, "Mike Rieves" <mr...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Off the cuff, a pair of the JBL PRX 515 speakers might work rather
well
in
that club.
Street price around a grand apiece, self powered 500W total
continuous,
1000W peak, peak SPL 133 dB, freq range 45 Hz to 20 KHz, so no subs
necessary. Easy installation, just hook up a CD player and EQ, and you
have
a good sounding background music system. Add a mixer and you have a
system
with plenty of power for live music, including bands.

Post from a user of the PRX series of speakers:
---
Well, problem confirmed. I just got off the phone with JBL Pro tech
support. They (JBL) did in fact included an internal noise gat into
the PRX series of powered amplifiers. Mind you that this is not
mentioned anywere in the product manual or spec ***. I told the rep
that the gate was so severe, that it was chopping off the reverb
trails of my lexicon MXP-1. He indicated that this was not the first
complant on this particular issue from customers who purchased the PRX
series speakers. So, needless to say, these are going back and I am
converting to component equipment instead of powered speakers. On an
interesting side not, I contacted Crown Audio (the amps that go into
the JBL's) this morning as well before I called JBL. I figured if
there was a noise gate built into this design, that Crown's design
team would be the culpret. The tech support guy for Crown said that as
far as he new, they did not design ANY type of noise gate into their
amps EVER. He thought it was the dumbest idea he had ever heard of,
considering most powered speakers have microphones, guitars, and other
insturments running through them, were sensitivity and sustain is a
huge issue. I guess this was after all a JBL exclusive design flaw. I
can tell you first hand that it RUINED this series all together as far
as I'm concerned. DO NOT BUY THESE SPEAKERS.
---
Yep, those would be GREAT, Mike... just wonderful!

Corey

I did a quick Google and I didn't see anything about that issue, in
fact
everything I saw was very positive. All the reviews I saw rated then very
highly. Where did you come up with that one? I think you either ran into
a
JBL bashing troll, or you made that up. Come on Corey, you gotta do
better
than that.

You're a dumbass.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1197516

Of all the people who have bought these speakers, one guy complains about
this and lies about the speakers having a built-in noise gate, and you
believe him. You're the dumbass!


Why do you have such a problem because someone is suggesting an
alternative? Is it because it's me that doing the suggesting? If so, just
get over it!

Nope. It's because you didn't bother to read the design specs, I've
installed a ton of systems like you're suggesting, and I believe Brian
is correct in suggesting a distributed system.

So have I, but apparently, the difference is that I know how to make them
sound good under a wide variety of situations.

BTW, if Brian does deside to do a distributed system, JBL has design
software at:http://www.jblpro.com/pages/software_downloads.htmand a
design tutorial
there as well.

JBL is a great company. I've used MANY of their projects over the
years. One of my good friends wrote most of the quality assurance
manuals in the 70's and 80's. In this particular case, I think using
some type of distributed system will work out much better than you're
suggestion, Mike.

I didn't try to force him, I just pointed out some advantages, and you're
welcome to think whatever you want.

Go back to his original post, then read his subsequent elaborations,
Mike. If you still think this situation warrants getting typical PA-
style speakers, well... you need to learn to read better, I guess.

Nope, I'm allowing for all eventualities, a properly designed FOH type
system will meet or exceed all his requirements, including the possibility
of having bands at some point, which is mentioned as a possibility. The
system I suggested will cost no more, and probably less that a distributed
system, properly designed and set up, it will sound just as good as a
distributed system, and it will be considerably more versatile.

As for your comments about having lots of experience installing
systems in clubs, well... I don't believe you, Mike. You may have
installed two systems, from what you've posted on here... but that
ain't 'Lots', as you claim in your post below.

From what you've posted, it's possible that you haven't installed even
one good system, if you don't think an FOH type system can't sound good for
background music in a small club.

You suggested an alternative that had already been shot down, both by
the owner of the club and the system designer, for exactly the reasons
that you're suggesting your alternative. Get over it, Mike... you
didn't understand (and it seems still don't) the design requirements.

Apparently, I understand more that you do, I understand that either system
will work well in the environment Brian is speakeing of and that the FOH
type system will be more versatile.

I have quite a bit of experience with the JBL's I suggested. You may
be correct that they might not handle a typical beer swilling crowd
that wants to watch sports on a Friday night. I think they will, but
I'm perfectly willing to admit I'm not 100% positive... but I think it
would be an easy test to find out, and there are a number of similar
solutions available.

You're not 100% positive, I think that the JBL's you suggest will work
just fine for background music, but you may need a lot more of them than you
think, unless the crowd at that club is much quieter and better mannered
than most folks who go to clubs to drink and party. However, they will be
marginal for any sort of live music, even acoustic music. The problem with
using them for only the vocals with acoustic instruments, is that folks in
the back half of the room will hear only the vocals. If they are used for
live acoustic music, it will be necessary to mic the instruments too, to get
a good balanced sound throughout the club. That means more dynamic range
capability will be needed because even acoustic music needs headroom. The
fact that live acoustic music music was mentioned, along with the
possibility of amplified bands is why I suggested a FOH type system. If it
was background music only, with no live music of any kind, and no dancing,
etc, I would never have mentioned it because a distributed system would work
fine for background music only. One point everyone seems to be overlooking
is that if there is going to be any time that the music is the center of
attention, as with live acoustic groups, live bands, or dance music, the
required SPL is going to be much higher. Better to design that in at the
beginning, especially when the cost will be no higher, than to have to spend
a lot more money later for a second system.


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