Re: Sound Installation Advice

On Nov 9, 12:16 am, "Mike Rieves" <mr...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I doubt if most patrons will even have a clue if one of the cabs stops
working. Frankly, I doubt if most patrons can even tell if it's
DISTORTING.

Keep in mind that Brian is talking about a jazz and blues club, and those
folks tend to be a bit more musically sophisticatted than most folks. i
think they'd notice.

I agree. It's also why I think going with the traditional peaky-and-
built-for-efficiency-not-necessarily-good-sound FOH cabs isn't
necessarily the right thing to do, Mike.

I'm going to change tactics here. What SPECIFICALLY would you suggest,
in the less-than-$4k range, to provide high quality background music
for the entire club, which won't blow away the patrons at the front of
the bar, while providing high quality sound at the other end?

Specifics, Mike... tell me what exactly you'd suggest, since you seem
to think what others have suggested is so wrong, I'd like to see what
you come up with. Here's your opportunity...

Every club I had anything to do with had at least one spare amp in the
rack, along with a spare EQ and electronic crossover for bi and tri amped
systems, including several I put together sound systems for. The backup EQ
and crossovers were generally cheap units, just enough to get by while the
primary units were being repaired or replaced. I added it into my bid and if
they didn't want it, they could get someone else to do the system. The clubs
I managed also had a spare board and DJ mixer, just in case. You're right
though, many club owners just buy what the absolutely have to have

You're a very special person, in a very special area, Mike. I've done
LOTS of installs... exactly two of them understood that having spares
made sense. I'm glad you have a different experience than I've had.

If you use a distributed system, I bet most patrons won't even be able
to tell something went wrong, if the cab just dies. If it's making
ugly noises, turn it off. Done.

Again, we're talking about jazz and blues fans, and they generally have
better ears than your average rock, country or dance club patron.

Yes, they do. And (having worked quite a few Jazz clubs in my day) I
disagree with you. As long as they can hear the vocals, they'll be
fine.

Plus, we're still talking about background music, with rare use as a
vocal reinforcement system.

Have you read his specs/requirements?

Well, Mike, I actually read what he's planning on using the system
for, which is background music. In this use, a distributed system does
a much better job than a loud point source system like you're
suggesting. And frankly, there are very few reasonably priced systems
that will sound as good as parking a bunch of studio monitors around
the room, especially at the size he's described.

In a club as small as the one he's talking about, with the speakers
mounted up high, the sound level will be pretty homogenous throughout the
club and without the phasing and timing issues of a distributed system, it
will probably sound better, if the distributed system isn't set up
perfectly. He did mention that the system would be used for live acoustic
music on occasion, and hinted that there might be amplified live music on
accasion as well. Why not design for that eventuality so a second system
won't be needed for those events, especially since the costs will be
comparible.

Hey, I'm all for overbuilding a sound system with an eye for the
future. Please re-read my statement below:

I disagree with your assessment. I find distributed systems fairly
easy to install and get sounding good. At most, the club MAY have a
vocalist that MIGHT use the system, now and again. Other than that,
it's going to play background music.

I'm still disagreeing with you, Mike.

Please name a local pub that uses a large FOH style PA for background
music, when there ISN'T a band on stage. I'm sure you can, but they're
just plain silly.

All of 'em around here, unless they use a jukebox. The FOH is generally
used for live music, karaoke, and background music when there's no band or
karaoke going on. It's pretty much the same in Nashville as well. Most of
the small clubs around here either have an FOH house system, or they have a
regular house band that leaves their PA in the club all the time. The ones
that don't have either a band or karaoke usually just use a jukebox.

So, name a couple in your area. I'll call them and ask how they're
doing it. Cuz I don't believe you. I'd be willing to bet there are a
bunch of small speakers that run the music UNTIL the band starts up,
at which point the band takes over handling FOH and background music.
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

I've been in over hundreds upon hundreds of clubs... ranging from
crappy little dives to some of the most upscale places in the country.
I don't think you're correct, Mike.

Well, it's for Brian and the club owner to decide, I just want to make
sure he sees both sides of the issue, before committing to either system.
Personally, I would go for a small FOH setup, but that's just my opinion
based on my personal experience.

I think Brian is quite familiar with both sides of the issue, Mike.

If he goes for the distributed system, I hope he keeps in mind the relative
lack of speaker efficiency in powered monitors or home speakers, compared to
SR speakers. If he doesn't, he may find the system woefully inadequate when
the club is full and folks are drinking and having fun.

As I pointed out above, your concept of decibels is way off the mark,
Mike, so I think he'll be just fine.

Corey

.

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