Re: Sound Installation Advice


"coreybenson" <coreybenson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1194586994.412100.8430@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Nov 8, 9:55 pm, "Mike Rieves" <mr...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If an overhead speaker in a distributed system goes out, it creates a
dead
spot that may be very annoying to the customers sitting under it, and
either
you replace it or you have annoyed customers all night.

I doubt if most patrons will even have a clue if one of the cabs stops
working. Frankly, I doubt if most patrons can even tell if it's
DISTORTING.

Keep in mind that Brian is talking about a jazz and blues club, and those
folks tend to be a bit more musically sophisticatted than most folks. i
think they'd notice.

If a power amp goes
down and you have a spare in the rack, you're down for less than two
minutes, tops while hooking the spare up.

Valid. IF you have a spare. Which, frankly, most racks DON'T. Most
clubs buy exactly what they need, and that's that. Sound Reinforcement
companies carry spares. Clubs generally don't, in my experience.

Every club I had anything to do with had at least one spare amp in the
rack, along with a spare EQ and electronic crossover for bi and tri amped
systems, including several I put together sound systems for. The backup EQ
and crossovers were generally cheap units, just enough to get by while the
primary units were being repaired or replaced. I added it into my bid and if
they didn't want it, they could get someone else to do the system. The clubs
I managed also had a spare board and DJ mixer, just in case. You're right
though, many club owners just buy what the absolutely have to have

Also, good quality commercial SR
equipment is very reliable. In the thirteen or so years I managed night
clubs, we had equipment failures that shut down the sound three times,
and
two of those times we were back up and running in under three minutes,
counting the time it took me to get to the stage and figure out what was
wrong (once was a power amp, once an EQ) The third time was the house
mixing
conole, and while the band had to quit while I hooked up the spare, I
unplugged the DJ mixer from the house board and hooked it directly to the
FOH EQ, and we had the DJ going in three or four minutes.

If you use a distributed system, I bet most patrons won't even be able
to tell something went wrong, if the cab just dies. If it's making
ugly noises, turn it off. Done.

Again, we're talking about jazz and blues fans, and they generally have
better ears than your average rock, country or dance club patron.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both types of sound systems,
but
a standard FOH type system is much easier to get sounding good than a
distributed system is, it's more efficient, more reliable in the long run
than powered house type systems, it has the advantage of being able to be
used for live music, there's less wiring to be run and installation is
much
easier. The FOH system will be capable of higher SPL if it's ever needed
and
there's less likelyhood of phasing/timing issues cropping up. If the
distributed system isn't set up correctly, it is likely that there will
be
dead spots at certain frequencies all over the house.
It's Brian's call, but if it were me, I'd go with the FOH type system,
it
will be cheaper, easier to install, more versatile, easier to get a good
sound with, and easier to correct any sonic problems that might show up
during installation and testing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, Mike, I actually read what he's planning on using the system
for, which is background music. In this use, a distributed system does
a much better job than a loud point source system like you're
suggesting. And frankly, there are very few reasonably priced systems
that will sound as good as parking a bunch of studio monitors around
the room, especially at the size he's described.

In a club as small as the one he's talking about, with the speakers
mounted up high, the sound level will be pretty homogenous throughout the
club and without the phasing and timing issues of a distributed system, it
will probably sound better, if the distributed system isn't set up
perfectly. He did mention that the system would be used for live acoustic
music on occasion, and hinted that there might be amplified live music on
accasion as well. Why not design for that eventuality so a second system
won't be needed for those events, especially since the costs will be
comparible.

I disagree with your assessment. I find distributed systems fairly
easy to install and get sounding good. At most, the club MAY have a
vocalist that MIGHT use the system, now and again. Other than that,
it's going to play background music.

Please name a local pub that uses a large FOH style PA for background
music, when there ISN'T a band on stage. I'm sure you can, but they're
just plain silly.

All of 'em around here, unless they use a jukebox. The FOH is generally
used for live music, karaoke, and background music when there's no band or
karaoke going on. It's pretty much the same in Nashville as well. Most of
the small clubs around here either have an FOH house system, or they have a
regular house band that leaves their PA in the club all the time. The ones
that don't have either a band or karaoke usually just use a jukebox.

It's a small local jazz club, which will never host anything more than
acoustic jazz acts. They MIGHT have a blues band, and it MIGHT be as
big as a three piece. I think a FOH style system for that is just
plain silly. And itll be cheaper, easier to install, and I bet he
never has a failure. Most bands that would need something more will
bring it themselves, anyway.

Corey


Well, it's for Brian and the club owner to decide, I just want to make
sure he sees both sides of the issue, before committing to either system.
Personally, I would go for a small FOH setup, but that's just my opinion
based on my personal experience.
If he goes for the distributed system, I hope he keeps in mind the relative
lack of speaker efficiency in powered monitors or home speakers, compared to
SR speakers. If he doesn't, he may find the system woefully inadequate when
the club is full and folks are drinking and having fun.


.

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