Re: Insulating Speaker Cabs. (Have we talked about this before?)



bjacoby@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

<snip>

I know all about the four ten pie tin cabinets.

You may know all about them, but you still haven't addressed the issue!

That you think standing waves in a cabinet is a good thing in the name of artistic TONE!!!!!!!!

That standing waves can't exist in small boxes. Yet, HONK is on the lips of those with practical
experience.

That, you don't understand the definition of the word ALL.


Please tell me right out just how you set your EQ on your "have it all"
speakers to get that "pie tin" sound?


I guess, you don't understand the definition of the word ALL. Or, have a functional understanding
of how basic system voicing is applied with respect to sonic reproduction.

The internet is filled with such important information on this subject.

How about hit up a good technical library, and read up on the subject of sonic reproduction.

While you are at it, look up the uses of the RTA to verify the performance of a sound system of any
type.

Even your sound card in your computer is subjected to such testing and evaluation by such.





So, you want to tell me all about the redundant electronic EQ,
in all the bass player's instruments
and gear, if your statement is so true.

Why is all that crap on board in the instrument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could it be that the amps's MISSING something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something that NEEDS fixing by all that on board
electronics in the bass itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, your "!" key is stuck! Yeah there is a reason for all that
redundant electronics in the bass itself. I think it has to do with the
fact my arm isn't 20 feet long! Of course the bass EQ is redundant,
but that is only because amp makers have to make amps that work with
BOTH active and passive basses. As was discussed in the "active bass"
thread, I actually adjust the "tone" of my bass while playing it. AND
because I've got a wide range system (like you!) I can dial in what I
want using EQ. And since I'm not much of a vintage guy, and having
suffered for years with "toy" tone controls on passive basses, I have
no interest in rolling back the clock. Personally I wish my active
basses had MORE EQ rather than less. I want parametric EQ and EQ
presets right on my bass! ooops excuse me....
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

And,..... did you ever stop to think, that if your system could reproduce it ALL and was properly
voiced, that you could arrive at the same place WITHOUT all that EQ fever.

All you are doing is wasting electrical energy trying to make poor designs work against the laws of
mother nature.

Here is a good book you should read some time.

One The Sensations Of Tone, by Hermann Helmholtz. 0-486-60753-4 Dover.

I think, all you tone experts should learn from the master of tone.



I can plug my bass, new toys, guitar, keyboard,
ANYTHING in my rigs, and get it ALL.

WHY,..... because they are FULL range, and I
just dial OUT, what I don't want to hear.

One great amp, for everything, is all you need.

You can disagree all you want. It still doesen't change
the fact, I got it all, when ever I want it.

Well I will disagree all I want. Fact is that my rig also "has it all".
I use it for e-drums as well as bass and it would work as well for
keyboards. And yes, I catch a lot of flack because the rig has horn
midrange speakers that most bass players hate. (you can flip them off
though). But now here is where you are wrong. No instrument speaker
EVER "has it all' and that includes your rig. That is because speakers
add their OWN coloration to the sound. "Pie tins" are an extreme
example, but it's also true for other speakers as well. You simply CAN
NOT "dial in" these colorations no matter what kind of EQ you have
(some can be done with modeling, but that is another issue).

Here's some of my experience. I have a Fender BXR200 amp. It is a 1 x
15. It has the Fender speaker that came with it. That speaker is NOT a
quality reproducing speaker. It has considerable distortion and sound
coloration. I ALSO own a very nice quality 15" speaker designed for
sound reproducing service. It has virtually no resonances and very low
distortion. Sometimes I switch out these two speakers in the amp.

Here's the thing. According to your position, ONLY the quality speaker
is going to sound good, and basically it would let me "dial in" ANY
tone I might want. But this is NOT what happens. What the careful
listener finds is that SOME basses sound totally great with the quality
speaker and some do not. And then one finds that SOME basses sound much
better with the "lower" quality original speaker and others do not. In
other words your theory of quality speakers "having it all" is simply
not true. It's true enough if I limit myself to those basses that sound
good on that kind of system. But some instruments actually sound better
on more limited systems. There are arguments around over whether
modeling can "dial in" these system limitations and distortions, but my
experience is that I think its open to question. Some things can be
done, but I've yet to hear a modeling setup that really bags any and
all amp sounds.

Benj

--


Regards,

Rich Koerner,
Time Electronics.
http://www.timeelect.com

Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
Music & Studio Production,
Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
.

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