Re: Mitt Romney: A very big gamble for the GOP

"Spender" <Spender@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:grf6i79sucsjcn9tf1fvo9lr7d5npvoced@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:12:01 -0500, "RichL" <rpleavitt@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"gemjack" <geminijacksonis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:9hv5i7dmhbjbbtmu53v821ira5c5m1jglh@xxxxxxxxxx
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:42:51 -0600, Spender <Spender@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

And these are (usually) the same people who get up in arms over any
mention of a flat tax. But oddly enough, most proposed flat taxes would
have at least resulted in Romney paying the same percentage as everybody
else.

Flat tax across the board is really the only fair tax philosophy. I'm
cool with around 20%.

You'd better be including payroll taxes in that, otherwise the so-called
"flat tax" isn't fair, it wouldn't result in the same rate for OVERALL
Federal taxes for anyone.

You are confusing fees or insurance payments with taxes. That isn't hard
because the government calls it a tax when it suits them and a user fee
when it doesn't.

Payroll taxes are ostensibly a quid pro quo. Social Security and Medicare
are supposedly insurance programs. Mandatory, but insurance nonetheless.
We were talking about federal income taxes. That is something that should
be more or less equal for all taxpayers.

Here's the first definition of tax I found:

"A sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes, property, sales, etc." Also, see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Insurance_Contributions_Act_tax

"Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax is a United States payroll (or employment) tax imposed by the federal government on both employees and employers to fund Social Security and Medicare."

They may be insurance programs, but they're funded through taxes. *Targeted* taxes, but taxes none the less.

They're not bank accounts. Some people get much more than they put in, others much less.

Wanna watch a flat taxer's head explode? Suggest that the cap on
contributions to Social Security be eliminated and that it be expanded to
cover ALL income, not just wages.

That would amount to intentionally charging the highest disability and
retirement insurance rates to the people who will likely need it the
least. Not only that, but it would amount to continuing to charge them
long after they have paid many times more than they could ever hope to
receive in benefits.

SS and Medicare aren't charging "rates" to individuals, they're levying a tax to support those programs.

Isn't that getting the concept of insurance backwards?

Well, it's not really "insurance" in the same sense as life insurance that you can purchase in the private sector. If they were, the argument against the individual mandate for Obamacare would be thrown out the window, because there would be a precedent for people being "forced" to purchase insurance.

Or would the wealthy man who paid exorbitant payroll "taxes" start getting
millions per year in benefits when he turns 65?

Maybe you object to the concept in general, but just because you do doesn't mean it's invalid. People put money into a pool according to their ability to do so, and people use money in the pool when they retire.

But the point is, SS taxes are Federal taxes, contributing to individuals' overall tax burden. To "flatten" the income tax without any adjustment in the way SS taxes are determined results in excessive taxation of those making less than the SS limit (which means most people).

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Questions on slightly raising sales tax during a recession/recovery
    ... things around by lowering taxes. ... It matters as to how the proceeds of the tax are used and exactly what is ... disability and life insurance system with a guaranteed refund of the ... Medicare taxes. ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: Teabaggers show their true colors
    ... the Obama administration is cutting the taxes of the middle class. ... tax isn't even close to the only tax that we pay. ... I've watched the Big Dig (which was original supposed to cost "only" ... This working person will likely have more health insurance choices than I ...
    (rec.music.gdead)
  • Re: Mitt Romney: A very big gamble for the GOP
    ... You are confusing fees or insurance payments with taxes. ... Here's the first definition of tax I found: ... OK, raise the cap until the fund is balanced, no more. ...
    (alt.guitar.amps)
  • Re: Healthcare: We helped Germany rebuilt, now let them help us
    ... included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, ... workers pay a premium based on their salary. ... Tax codes are extremely complicated and each ... into a discussion on taxes. ...
    (alt.gathering.rainbow)
  • Re: Middle Class Takes It In The Shorts With Bush
    ... Sinister also posted data proving that property taxes had declined, ... landowners a windfall through a steadily declining true tax rate as ... as _proved_ by the data sinister posted. ... typically decline, because land value increases faster than inflation. ...
    (sci.econ)