Re: Two lovely rants

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:00:22 GMT, "DGDevin" <dgdevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"TPS" <theron@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1184346038.464819.101200@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

True enough. It's hard to enjoy a barrel aged rum when some ***
is chanting "drink! drink! drink!".

Pot-distalled from sugar cane of course. ;^)

So alright. I gave the first rant a full listen. I liked the last
sentence, "Any religion that demands earthly vengeance and retribution
for any reason is not really a religion at all, but an illness, and
should be treated as such."

Yup, a religion that demands the death or subjugation of non-believers is
way across the line.

I'm not so fond of the essentializing and generalizations, the
arrogant and ahistorical assumption that Islam must develop in the
same way that his (ex)religion did,

In one sense I'll disagree, *any* religion that reserves the right to kill
or conquer non-believers purely because they are non-believers needs to
evolve, period. Violence is not an acceptable means of religious
expression, ever. The various Christian sects have their share of flaws,
but except for fringe nutcases they confine their displeasure to boycotts,
protest marches, letter-writing and so on, as opposed to rioting, burning,
bombing, beheading and whatever. A lot of Christians might have been
offended by The Passion of the Christ, but they didn't burn down embassies
and behead the producer in response, Christianity has for the most part
moved past that sort of medieval reaction to being offended. Well, maybe
it's too soon to count out the Irish, but at least they're giving us reason
to hope they've finally settled down.

the ignorance of the fact that
some muslim women wear a hijab or a veil for the same reason an Irish
Catholic might wear a cross around her neck - because it's part of her
identity,

Well, when it's 99 degrees in the shade and you can hardly see where you're
going and it would be damn hard to drive a car even if you were allowed to,
I think we can suggest one operates on a very different level than the
other. "A part of her identity" that is rooted in dogma that women are
inferior and enforces that belief by handicapping and oppressing women in a
thousand ways is hugely different than a tiny piece of jewelry worn by men
as well as women. Yeah, there's lot of ugly stuff in the Bible too, but how
much current law in nations with a Christian heritage legalises murder based
on Biblical text? There was just something in the news about another
adulterer being stoned to death in Iran, it's no coincidence that a religion
that considers women to have such weak intellectual and moral qualties that
they have to be kept wrapped up out of sight would also put people to death
for the "crime" of adultery.

the refusal to see any of the progressive elements in Islam
(such as the Egyptian clerics who banned female circumcision) etc.

I was just reading an article about some British Muslims who take their
female children on "vacation" and bring them back mutilated, or who import
the mutilators for the same purpose. Yeah, it ain't universal in Islam, but
when it's happening to thousands of girls every year in supposedly civilized
countries it's understandable it occupies center stage. Besides, plenty of
liberals finger-point at fundamentalist Christians who do goofball things
while ignoring the majority who are sane, sober, law-abiding citizens, so
fair's fair.

Of course there are legitimate criticisms of any religious practice,
and I sure wouldn't deny that muslim cultures tend to infringe on the
liberties of women more than "secular" cultures. His rant seems more
about smarmy, self-congratulatory digs than about any real attempt at
understanding or "peace".

Surely he addresses that in the second rant, that in Britain they've bent
over backwards to be tolerant and understanding and so on, and yet something
like 13% of British Muslims believe the London bus/subway bombers are
martyrs whose actions were justified. Isn't it ironic that European nations
which have gone out of their way to be tolerant havens are now experiencing
so many problems with their Muslim minorities? Geez, look at France and all
that rioting not so long ago, how come Muslim residents of nasty old
oppressive America aren't out burning cars for days on end?

Tolerance is essential, I consider it to be at the core of a civilized
society, but it's a two-way street, and a significant minority of Muslims
just don't seem to be interested. I've met some really pig-headed
Christians over the years, but so far our society seems capable of
preventing them from stoning us to death for our sins, how come so many
nations with Islamic rule seem unable to do the same?

Suicide is a definate sign of mental illness..not bravery or a sign to
"God". And murder is the same thing...just a different version of
mental illness..and mental illness cannot be understood by the sane.It
can be studied. "God" gave people life. I do not think "He" would be
pleased with someone that dies early by suicide.The definition of
mental illness is repeating the same actions expecting different
results. Sort of like Keith Adams trying to be a guitar guru but his
own typing and computer access is akin to giving a monkey a machine
gun...
.

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