Re: OT - There goes the southern ice cap.... (!!!!)


"flipper" <flipper@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:73hl43ll5j10gkhviptbrras4lujh7uggr@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 15 May 2007 14:52:49 -0500, "Elvis Kabong"
<ampscience@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


[trimmed for brevity]

Gee, you guys claimed there was "no plan." Now you claim there was "a
plan."

There is no *exit* plan, brainiac. That's why Duhbya insists on continuing
to muck about in the quagmire indefinitely.

What was the exit plan on entering W.W.II??????

Wasn't it

Just how utterly clueless can one get?

to defend our Allies in England and France from
the German invasion

You mean to 'protect' France from German invasion after they'd
completely and totally fallen to German invasion more than a bloody
year before Pearl Harbor?

No, I said, DEFEND, i.e. come to their defense by fighting their invaders.
Not only that, but the phrase, "to defend our Allies in England and France
from the German invasion" was meant to be chronologically present tense,
not chronologically past tense, you semantic pervert.



And, in case no one clued you in, the
Japanese, not Germany, attacked Pearl Harbor and the 'allies' you
speak of were not mentioned even once in Roosevelt's address to
Congress asking "that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked
and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, December 7, a state of war
has existed between the United States and the Japanese Empire."

And your brilliant mind no doubt figures that between Dec 7, 1941, and
Dec 8, before his address to Congress. he magically planned the entire
war and devised an 'exit strategy', or else he'd have given the
Japanese a pass? Woops, sorry. Looks tough, and I note we're short a
few airplanes and the upgraded body armor, so I think we'll just let
this one slide and wait for an easier one.

Japan and Germany were allies, so the US attacked both countries.
And once their leaders surrendered, signed a peace treaty, our GIs
returned.

Saddam was captured and forced to sign documents. Time to come
home. Oh, but the greedy slimy oilmen in the whiteyhouse want that
Iraqi Oil. Two different scenarios, brainiac.


and once that was accomplished,

What? The stated 'mission' of the war declaration? Want to read it?
No, of course you don't, but here it is anyway.

MONDAY, DECEMBER 8, 1941

DECLARATION OF STATE OF WAR WITH JAPAN

"...the President is hereby
authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces
of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on
war against the Imperial Government of Japan; and to bring the
conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the
country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United states."

There's your 'exit strategy', pal. A "successful termination" of the
'conflict'.

But there is NO successful termination of the conflict in Iraq and THERE
NEVER WILL BE! A conventional military cannot be effective against
guerilla tactics. You should have learned that from Vietnam, genius.
Not only that, but warmongering is only a remedy, not the cure.
You and morons like you and the pigs in the white house refuse to
deal with the root cause of terrorism. The native people of the Middle
East DO NOT want the US setting up and/or supporting puppet
dictators there. They DO NOT want the US extorting their governments,
exploiting their resources and manipulating their economies and they
DO NOT want to adopt our culture and religion. But the US continues
to push all of that crap down their throats anyway. So they fight back against
a super power with the only means they have - terrorism.

We wouldn't have this problem if we as an alleged Christian nation
(according to Falwell, Robertson, Bush, Reagan, Lump*** and bunch
of conservative creeps who want to remove the separation of church and
state) would do the Christian thing of stop fucking with those people
and their country, ask forgiveness for the past injustices the US imposed
upon them and to make amends. But as a "Christian" nation instead
we retailiate with the same role as the bully that they have to fight against
with dirty tricks and it never fucking ends.

And if the US would have converted to alternative energies back when
we were first screwed by OPEC, by now we wouldn't need that fucking
oil in Iraq, but short-sighted selfish dickheads like you prevailed against
it, so we're stuck with another bogus never-ending "war" that won't
accomplish a damned thing anymore than Vietnam did.

For you guys waving a white flag qualifies. After all, that would
'successfully terminate' it,

Oh, it's the "liberals are quitters" talking points thingy now.

Ok, you are a genetically defective serial killing rapist of men,
women and children. I want you to quit!
And I'm not a liberal.


Oh, but what about Germany?

DECLARATION OF STATE OF WAR WITH GERMANY

"the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire
naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of
the Government to carry on war against the Government of Germany;
and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the
resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of
the United States."

Sound familiar?

Care to guess what the DECLARATION OF STATE OF WAR WITH ITALY says?


to celebrate and come back home?

And just when was this magical date you imagine that all U.S. troops
'came back home' from Europe? Hint, ask the over 90,000 there right
now.

Oh yeah, the same ones that were there after WW2. Sure...
But Iraq did not attack the US, dip***.

Unfortunately, in Iraq, WE are the invaders.
We are NOT welcome. There are NO flowers for the invaders.
The insugents are evidently NOT in their last throes -
instead quite the opposite, so stay and keep making it worse?
WTF for? For more hatred and resentment and resulting
guerilla resistance that a conventional army is incapable of
effectively confronting and instead are walking targets or are
acting like gestapo agents breaking into civilian homes in the
middle of the night? Tell me this is not true - EVERYONE HATES
A BULLY UNLESS YOU ARE ONE OF THE BULLY'S SYCOPHANTS,
and even then, a yes-man may actually also hate his bully "friend",
in secret of course.

When we entered France we were invading it. When we entered Italy we
invaded it. When we entered Germany we invaded it. When we occupied
Japan it was after they surrendered prior to the scheduled invasion.
And I left out 'small' ones like Sicily, North Africa, and half the
Pacific Ocean.

The US invaded *OCCUPIED* France, Italy and Japan that were INVADED
by a REAL foreign army that was OCCUPYING those countries. And the
objective was to drive out and conquer the invaders, then invade the
foreign invaders' own country to defeat them.

In Iraq, the US military are the FOREIGN OCCUPYING unwelcome invaders.

Too bad your tunnel vision makes you unable to see the fucking difference,
you myopic cretin.


That's how you *defeat* dictators and tyrants, fool. They have to be
forcibly expelled and a reasonable government erected in their place.

Which is exactly why the tyrannical bully - the US needs to be forcibly expelled
from Iraq.


***, Ronnie Brainban negotiated with Iran for the hostages release,
but that was ok?

The occupation of Iraq is nothing but incompetence, hypocrisy,
a complete waste of lives and resources AND A STUPID SICK FUCKING

JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And any American rabidly endorsing this debacle and immoral escapade
of Duhbya's is nothing but a sucker punched credulous pants-pisser
always living in fear with the same inadequacy it takes to forfeit rights
and freedoms for more security and/or possessing the cowardly mentality
of a chickenhawk.

You're a fool who should re-read Roosevelt, who thought we had
'learned a lesson', but too many have conveniently forgotten.

RADIO ADDRESS BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES BROADCAST FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, ON
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1941

"
.
.
I repeat that the United States can accept no result save victory,
final and complete. Not only must the shame of Japanese treachery be
wiped out, but the sources of international brutality, wherever they
exist, must be absolutely and finally broken.

In my message to the Congress yesterday I said that we "will make very
certain that this form of treachery shall never endanger us again." In
order to achieve that certainty, we must begin the great task that is
before us by abandoning once and for all the illusion that we can ever
again isolate ourselves from the rest of humanity.

In these past few years and, most violently. In the past few days we
have learned a terrible lesson.

It is our obligation to our dead, it is our sacred obligation to their
children and our children, that we must never forget what we have
learned.

And what we all have learned is this:

There is no such thing as security for any nation or any individual in
a world ruled by the principles of gangsterism.

There is no such thing as impregnable defense against powerful
aggressors who sneak up in the dark and strike without warning.

We have learned that our ocean-girt hemisphere is not immune from
severe attack, that we cannot measure our safety in terms of miles on
any map."



And notice, again, the 'exit strategy': "victory, final and complete"
and 'the enemy': "Not only.. [the] Japanese but the sources of
international brutality, wherever they exist, must be absolutely and
finally broken."

A few substitutions and the speech could have been given on 9-11 and
he didn't say 'only' those other sources of international brutality
who 'participated' in the Pearl Harbor attack nor 'only' those who had
"operational command and control links" in the Pearl Harbor attack. He
said WHEREVER THEY EXIST.

Now, unless you want to argue the absurd notion that Saddam was a
'nice guy'....

Germany had not declared war, and neither had Italy, but

"Remember always that Germany and Italy,
---> regardless of any formal declaration of war,<---
consider themselves at war with the United States at this moment..."


"The true goal we seek is far above and beyond the ugly field of
battle. When we resort to force, as now we must, we are determined
that this force shall be directed toward ultimate good as well as
against immediate evil. We Americans are not destroyers; we are
builders."

The "immediate evil" is not the only goal.

"We are now in the midst of a war, not for conquest, not for
vengeance, but for a world in which this Nation, and all that this
Nation represents, will be safe for our children. We expect to
eliminate the danger from Japan, but it would serve us ill if we
accomplished that and found that the rest of the world was dominated
by Hitler and Mussolini."

BEFORE any declaration of war he's explaining that a job half done is
a job not done. Eliminating one, but leaving the rest, is not victory.

"We are going to win the war, and we are going to win the peace that
follows."

Just killing Yamamoto, who 'planned the attack', won't do it. Just
killing Tojo won't do it. Just killing Hitler won't do it. Just
defeating the armies won't do it. VE day isn't 'the end' and VJ day
isn't 'the end' either.

------------------------------

ALL OF THE FOLLOWING QUOTES ARE IRRELEVANT.
ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE CHANGED THEIR MINDS AFTER
FINDING OUT THEY WERE LIED TO WITH FRAUDULENT
JUSTIFICATIONS OF INVADING IRAQ, YOU WASTEFUL PIG.


Senator Hillary Clinton
Addressing the US Senate
October 10, 2002
http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and
biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his
nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to
terrorists, including Al Qaeda members...

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical
warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."


Senator John Edwards
US Senate floor statement: "Iraqi Dictator Must Go"
September 12, 2002
http://edwards.senate.gov/statements/20020912_iraq.html

"As a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, I firmly believe
that the issue of Iraq is not about politics. It's about national
security. We know that for at least 20 years, Saddam Hussein has
obsessively sought weapons of mass destruction through every means
available. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons today.
He has used them in the past, and he is doing everything he can to
build more. Each day he inches closer to his longtime goal of nuclear
capability -- a capability that could be less than a year away.

The path of confronting Saddam is full of hazards. But the path of
inaction is far more dangerous. This week, a week where we remember
the sacrifice of thousands of innocent Americans made on 9-11, the
choice could not be starker. Had we known that such attacks were
imminent, we surely would have used every means at our disposal to
prevent them and take out the plotters. We cannot wait for such a
terrible event -- or, if weapons of mass destruction are used, one far
worse -- to address the clear and present danger posed by Saddam
Hussein's Iraq."


Senator Robert C. Byrd
Addressing the US Senate
October 3, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course
to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability.
Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons,
but has not yet achieved nuclear capability."



Joseph Wilson, Advisor to John Kerry 2004 Presidential Campaign
During an interview with Bill Moyers
February 28, 2003
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_wilson.html

BILL MOYERS: President Bush's recent speech to the American Enterprise
Institute, he said, let me quote it to you. "The danger posed by
Saddam Hussein and his weapons cannot be ignored or wished away." You
agree with that?
JOE WILSON: I agree with that. Sure.

BILL MOYERS: "The danger must be confronted." You agree with that?
"We would hope that the Iraqi regime will meet the demands of the
United Nations and disarm fully and peacefully. If it does not, we
are prepared to disarm Iraq by force. Either way, this danger will be
removed. The safety of the American people depends on ending this
direct and growing threat." You agree with that?

JOE WILSON: I agree with that. Sure. The President goes on to say in
that speech, as he did in the State of the Union Address, is we will
liberate Iraq from a brutal dictator. All of which is true.


Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi
During an interview on "Meet The Press"
November 17, 2002
http://www.accuracy.org/newsrelease.php?articleId=375

"Saddam Hussein certainly has chemical and biological weapons. There's
no question about that."



Howard Dean, Democratic Presidential Candidate
During an interview on "Face The Nation"
September 29, 2002
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_092902.pdf

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat to the United
States and to our allies.

If Saddam persists in thumbing his nose at the inspectors, then we're
clearly going to have to do something about it."



President Clinton
During an interview on CNN's "Larry King Live"
July 22, 2003
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/23/clinton.iraq.sotu/

"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in
Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is
incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted
for stocks of biological and chemical weapons."


Senator Harry Reid
Addressing the US Senate
October 9, 2002
Congressional Record, p. S10145
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/
cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=S10145&dbname=2002_record

"We stopped the fighting [in 1991] on an agreement that Iraq would
take steps to assure the world that it would not engage in further
aggression and that it would destroy its weapons of mass destruction.
It has refused to take those steps. That refusal constitutes a breach
of the armistice which renders it void and justifies resumption of the
armed conflict."



Senator John Kerry
Statement on eve of military strikes against Iraq
March 17, 2003
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030331&s=lizza033103

"It is the duty of any president, in the final analysis, to defend
this nation and dispel the security threat. Saddam Hussein has
brought military action upon himself by refusing for 12 years to
comply with the mandates of the United Nations. The brave and capable
men and women of our armed forces and those who are with us will
quickly, I know, remove him once and for all as a threat to his
neighbors, to the world, and to his own people, and I support their
doing so."


Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate
During an interview on CNN
January 18, 2003
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0301/18/smn.05.html

WESLEY CLARK: He does have weapons of mass destruction.

MILES O'BRIEN: And you could say that categorically?

WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right, well, where are, where is, they've been
there a long time and thus far we've got 12 empty casings. Where are
all these weapons?

WESLEY CLARK: There's a lot of stuff hidden in a lot of different
places, Miles, and I'm not sure that we know where it all is. People
in Iraq do. The scientists know some of it. Some of the military,
the low ranking military; some of Saddam Hussein's security
organizations. There's a big organization in place to cover and
deceive and prevent anyone from knowing about this.



Senator Edward Kennedy
Speech at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies
September 27, 2002
http://kennedy.senate.gov/~kennedy/statements/02/09/2002927718.html
"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger,
that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass
destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed."


Al Gore, Vice-President
Speech to San Francisco Commonwealth Club
September 23, 2002

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-09-23-gore-text_x.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,797999,00.html
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/24/1032734161501.html

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible
to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as
long as Saddam is in power.

We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."



Congressman Henry Waxman
Addressing the US Congress
October 10, 2002


http://www.house.gov/waxman/news_files/news_statements_res_iraq_10_10_02.htm
http://www.house.gov/waxman/news_files/pdfs/news_statements_res_iraq_10_10_02.pdf
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity.
This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate
and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the
system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and
legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the
United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts."


Fair weather opportunistic hypocrites, all. And not a Republican in
the lot.



No 'links'?

The Washington Post
January 23, 1999; Page A02
Official Cites Gains Against Bin Laden

By Vernon Loeb

Richard A. Clarke, the Clinton administration's senior
counterterrorism official, provided new information in defense of
President Clinton's decision to fire Tomahawk cruise missiles at the
El Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan, in retaliation for
Osama bin Laden's role in the Aug. 7 embassy bombings.

While U.S. intelligence officials disclosed shortly after the missile
attack that they had obtained a soil sample from the El Shifa site
that contained a precursor of VX nerve gas, Clarke said that the U.S.
government is "sure" that Iraqi nerve gas experts actually produced a
powdered VX-like substance at the plant that, when mixed with bleach
and water, would have become fully active VX nerve gas.

Clarke said U.S. intelligence does not know how much of the substance
was produced at El Shifa or what happened to it. But he said that
intelligence exists linking bin Laden to El Shifa's current and past
operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts, and the National Islamic Front
in Sudan.

Given the evidence presented to the White House before the airstrike,
Clarke said, the president "would have been derelict in his duties if
he didn't blow up the facility."

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/
38284880.html?did=38284880&FMT=ABS&FMTS=FT


Senator Hillary Clinton
Addressing the US Senate
October 10, 2002
http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and
biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his
nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to
terrorists, including Al Qaeda members...

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical
warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."



But, but, but, but... what about the U.N. weapons inspectors and Hanz
Blix?

Dr. Hans Blix, Chief UN Weapons Inspector
Addressing the UN Security Council
January 27, 2003

"Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance -- not even
today -- of the disarmament, which was demanded of it and which it
needs to carry out to win the confidence of the world and to live in
peace."

---------

"The nerve agent VX is one of the most toxic ever developed.

13,000 chemical bombs were dropped by the Iraqi Air Force between 1983
and 1988, while Iraq has declared that 19,500 bombs were consumed
during this period. Thus, there is a discrepancy of 6,500 bombs. The
amount of chemical agent in these bombs would be in the order of about
1,000 tonnes."

---------

"The recent inspection find in the private home of a scientist of a
box of some 3,000 pages of documents, much of it relating to the laser
enrichment of uranium, support a concern that has long existed that
documents might be distributed to the homes of private individuals.
...we cannot help but think that the case might not be isolated and
that such placements of documents is deliberate to make discovery
difficult and to seek to shield documents by placing them in private
homes."

---------

"I have mentioned the issue of anthrax to the Council on previous
occasions and I come back to it as it is an important one.

Iraq has declared that it produced about 8,500 litres of this
biological warfare agent, which it states it unilaterally destroyed in
the summer of 1991. Iraq has provided little evidence for this
production and no convincing evidence for its destruction.

There are strong indications that Iraq produced more anthrax than it
declared, and that at least some of this was retained after the
declared destruction date. It might still exist. Either it should be
found and be destroyed under UNMOVIC supervision or else convincing
evidence should be produced to show that it was, indeed, destroyed in
1991."


Time was up for Saddam so let us end on the wise words of

Senator John Kerry
Statement on commencement of military strikes against Iraq
March 20, 2003
http://kerry.senate.gov/high/record.cfm?id=191582


"It appears that with the deadline for exile come and gone, Saddam
Hussein has chosen to make military force the ultimate weapons
inspections enforcement mechanism. If so, the only exit strategy is
victory, this is our common mission and the world's cause."

-------------and, again, on

Senator John Kerry
Speech at Drake University in Iowa
December 16, 2003
http://www.jsonline.com/news/gen/dec03/193182.asp?format=print

"Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off
without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe today that we are not
safer with his capture, don't have the judgment to be President, or
the credibility to be elected President.

No one can doubt or should doubt that we are safer -- and Iraq is
better -- because Saddam Hussein is now behind bars."

If you are going to make up your own perverted definitions of the words:
victory, ending and exit plan along with quotations of people who
have changed their minds after finding out they had been lied to
from the beginning, then you can go *** your fraudulent self,
you rabid death and destruction worshipper pervert creep
and bum*** cowardly chickenhawk hypocrite!


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