Re: OT: a question for the Global Warming deniers

DGDevin wrote:
"gtski" <xxgtskixm@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:k0vKh.16487$mh7.4352@xxxxxxxxxxx


Maybe because we weren't so wrong about the Iraq War. First, many said "we will go to war to oust Saddam"... for 'whatever' reasons, he and his regime had to go. If you recall, the term... "Regime change".
Second, google and read Bushs speech to the UN concerning why he felt Iraq needed regime change. There were many reasons... only one of them mentioned the 'possibility' of WMD. The rest made no mention of them.


Oh puhlease, when the President talked about not waiting for a mushroom cloud over an American city he wasn't talking about just "regime change," it's ridiculous to pretend WMDs weren't front and center in the justification for the war. Hell, we used to see a lot of folks in this very newsgroup quoting Dem politicians who had warned against Saddam's WMDs in the past, if that wasn't support for the Bush admin's views on the same subject then what was it?

Who cares really. The fact that Clinton himself said Saddam and Iraq WMDs and terrorism were a huge threat that needed to be removed, only means he was seeing the same intel that Bush saw, only many years earlier. Further, Clinton didn't have the nuts to "do what needed to be done". NOTE: Clinton DID order plans made to attack North Korea, only to have Jimmy Carter accept NKs *promise* not to be bad. So Clinton got 'off the hook' on that one too... with Carter conveniently providing the "everything is fine, I believe NK is honest and will do as they promise".

Bush got up in front of the UN (the world???) and stated his position, and itemized his 'reasons'... if you didn't listen, if you didn't care, or if you want to 'take' things that were said in your own context, feel free.

The congress (intel committee) gets to see most of the intel and then Congress voted overwhelmingly to authorize war. Each one who voted FOR allowing it, is as culpable as Bush. Period. The fact that they are whining, crying, and playing politics NOW is just that... political bull***. (Fact is, they were VERY possibly playing politics with their war vote as well... )

Hillary knows this is true, and thus will not admit her vote was a 'mistake'. Given the intel, the history, etc... everyone saw it the same way and voted as much. Now to start whining and blabbering about being misled by Bush is pathetic.

Further, looking back on past conflicts, can anyone imagine in WWII the congress saying "We should be OUT of Europe by Sept '44... enough American soldiers have died. The europeans can finish this."

The North Vietnamese, quickly figured it out, that we were going to leave, so they just agreed to everything and waited for the US to leave. Why is the US Congress "telegraphing" the enemy with our plans to leave...??????




Guess what folks. The regime in Iraq has changed. The rebuilding of Iraq has been ongoing.


Some rebuilding, it's going so well that anyone with brains and money is bailing out of the country.

Some rebuilding indeed. You don't know about it so you comment on those that have left, not those that have stayed. Further, Iraqis are now fighting and dying for Iraq. It should also be noted that those with brains and money have bailed out of New Orleans as well.




There is an "insurgency" going on as well... or if you want to call it a 'civil war'.. that's your perogative. Is this to be expected...??? Sure.


Expected by everyone but the guys who planned the occupation, to them it seemed to come as something of a surprise.

Nope. No supprise at all... except for the extent of lack of police/military to manage the insurgency. That indeed was un-expected. You wouldn't know, so I'll inform you... that after Germany surrendered in WWII the Allies WERE very supprised that elements of the German Army did NOT retreat into the mountains and country-side to fight an insurgent war. The Allies fully EXPECTED that to happen.


And presumably we don't need to be reminded of the VP telling us the insurgency was on "it's last legs" -- how long ago was that again?

Your first mistake... believing a politician. Will you contiune to do this your entire life...??? Second mistake... thinking that war/combat/insurgencies run on a schedule like the movies and that all will conclude 'on time'. Let's see, how long did the insurgency last in Northern Ireland...??? How many IRA car bombs went off in England..?? In Ireland...???



You folks who claim that the Iraq *war* has been mishandled need to do some reading, and studying. If you want to see a REALLY mishandled war, just read about WWII... or WWI... or virtually EVERY MILITARY CONFLICT ever... None go as planned.


Planned? LOL, you think they had a plan for Iraq?

Of course they did. If you don't think so, then consider yourself uninformed.


That's very generous of you, but the lack of a meaningful post-invasion plan seems to have been one of those little details they forgot about.

They had a plan. The plan may have not been appropriate for what the situation became, but there certainly was a plan. Again, you seem to think that post-war plans are like TV shows..???? They are certain to "work" and everyone is happy..??? What plan did the US have for Japan after the war...??? When did this plan come about..??? When was the Marshall Plan drawn up...??? In 1942..??? How about the post-war plan for Kosovo...??? Grenada...??? Panama...???


As for global warming, when we reinsulated the attic and put in new windows we not only needed to burn less gas and electricity heating/cooling the place, we saved a buttload of money as well. Can anybody explain the downside of that deal to me, 'cause I keep forgetting why burning less fossil fuel is apparently the wrong thing to do. . . .

Well, we are NOT burning less fossil fuel, we just maybe are not increasing the amount burned as fast as without your effort.

First, how much fossil fuels, and other energy use was used to construct the windows themselves...??? Possibly your replacement windows have some plastics in them, metals..??? Plastics come from oil and maybe someone lurking here can fill you in on the types of gasses that are released into the air during the manufacturing of plastics... and metals... and the paint to paint the metals. Then the plant that makes the windows probably gets heated by fossil fuel(s)... and the people who make the windows drive cars to work,etc... so there is an energy/pollution 'cost' to every item you used in your re-insulation project. (Did the insulation have paper backing...??? ie-trees used for the paper...??? Have you ever seen paper being 'made'..??)

The downside of the deal for you may be not knowing for sure what chemicals got dumped during the manufacturing process for you to save the buttload of money. Not knowing what gasses were/are being released into the air at the plant making the products you used. The owners and upper management of these same companies may be taking the profits from selling you (and others) these insulating products and buying private jets, big houses like Gores, etc and polluting their asses off. Without buyers of these insulation products no private jet would be purchased by the company for the CEO to skip around the country in.
If you're an 'airplane' enthusiast, it's a worthwhile trip to stop by Aspen, CO on a holiday and watch the giant traffic jam of private jets trying to get into and out of Aspen. You'll see more private jets in ONE place that almost anywhere in the world.

Or, maybe there is no downside for you at all. You'll just have to tell us that.

But, if you save a bunch of money in utility costs, you have to be carefull what you buy with that money so as not to support more 'dirty' manufacturers... (anything made in India/Pakistan/China where there are ZERO environmental laws). So even if you merely buy more stuff from Walmart, K-mart, Target, Sears, Best Buy, any computer/TV/radio/phone, or your local hardware store, if it says 'made in china/Pakistan/India/etc'... chances are it's from a major pollutor.

If you threw out your old windows, they will end up in a landfill where the paint will eventually leach into the auquifer and soil, or if burned may very well release some rather nasty toxins into the air.
Depending on where you live, they could end up in the ocean... (!!!)
Did you check to see where these old windows were 'going'..??

With all the reduction in energy from more effective and efficient insulation, the energy use in America is still going UP... maybe just not up as fast.

Congrats on saving the money though... It's easy (though not always cheap) to make a house WAY more insulated than it usually is...
If you can, borrow an infrared thermal camera and look around inside and outside your home to see where the 'leaks' are... a little leak can cause a lot of heat/cooling loss.





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