Re: OT - Timepax . . ! ! ! This CAN'T be..!! Can it >. . ? ! ? ! ? ! ? !

playun wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:25:30 GMT, gtski <xxgtskixm@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



But here YOU go...

Instead of having Rick Wolff *interpret* economic reports and statistics FOR you... maybe you should learn some economics, statistics, and make more than a feeble attempt at *understanding*.

Give this a try...

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2005/05/art1full.pdf

Read the whole thing, if you can.

I'll quote but twice from this report...

First... maybe to save you having to read the entire report and get bogged down in trying to understand the contents...

"Increases in employee compensation substantially outpaced increases in consumer prices during the late 1990s. Most, but not all, data series indicate that real compensation continued to grow from 2000 to 2003, although at a somewhat slower rate than in the late 1990s.


OK, but did you see the graph in my post that pointed out the workers are
being asked to produce far more labor than formerly? So what happens is
people are working a lot harder and longer, for a little more money.
Everyone has less time for their kids, etc.


Changes in compensation--or, more specifically, changes in "real" compensation after accounting for consumer price inflation-- are among the most widely watched indicators of economic performance."


See above.


That is except by you... you read bull*** op-ed pieces to get *their* opinion on some political economic position.

Second...

"The last column... shows that real hourly compenstaion in the nonfarm business sector increased 32.2 percent from the fourth quarter of 1979 to the fourth quarter of 2003. That increase is similar to the 26.8 percent inrease in the ECI for total compensation. Such similar trends seem logical because, despite the many methodological differences between the realy hourly compensation series and the ECI for total compensation, these series are the only ones that include employers costs for benefits in addition to wages and salaries."

*****************
Oh, and your citing of the *opinion* piece by Mr. Francis is typical of your *opinion as fact* approach to 'debate'.


There was a lot more that I posted that you didn't respond to... some of it
derived from US Govt. Labor statistics.


This, from his article, is cute... "More than 1,000 wealthy Americans have joined a related group, Responsible Wealth, to fight to preserve the estate tax."

Not really economic *analysis*, more like a sales pitch...???


Well, is it true, or not???


And this...

"As for remedies to income immobility between generations, a huge effort at better education of the poor would help."


Now aint' that a 'feel good' addition to ANY economic analysis...!!!


Do you maintain that educating everyone is a bad idea? Right now we import
educated people (engineers, doctors, nurses, etc) because we don't have
enough here to meet the demand. But what's really great about importing
these people is that we don't have to pay them as much as American
professionals would expect. In other words, instead of training American
nurses, we just hire them from the Philipines. And those people will work
for less.



The Fallout from Falling US Wages
by Rick Wolff Real wages in the US rose during every decade from 1830 to 1970. Then this
central feature of US capitalism stopped as the figures below show:

Source: Labor Research Associates of New York based on data from the US
Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics; wages expressed in
constant 1982 dollars.

1964 $302.52 1974 314.94 1984 279.22 1994 259.97 2004 277.57


No comment? This isn't opinion, this is fact.


I don't know where you live but in Seattle you can hire illegal immgrants
to paint your house for $10 an hour.

Well, there ya go sparkster..!! Painting isn't carpentry... eh..???


Look. What % of illegal immigrants are skilled laborers, such as a
carpenter?


That ain't no $80k a year and it's
barely a living wage in this expensive city.

You confuse "living" with some cushy perception of the word. You need to get out in the world a bit, maybe even other countries and see what a 'living wage' means to some people.


You keep wanting to compare the USA to a 3rd world country... I guess you
don't like to set the bar too high. I prefer to compare the USA to what it
was 20 or 30 years ago.

I know all about it. I've spend time in developing countries. Your
dumbass argument seems to be, "it's really bad in other places, so it
doesn't matter that it's getting worse here".

But a lot of people don't think it's getting worse. So are YOU right and they are wrong..???


A lot of people do. A lot of people have no savings. A lot of people have
no education. A lot of people are addicted to drugs. A lot of people have
wretched nutrition and are obese. These trends have been growing worse --
personal debt, health, bankruptcy rate, etc etc.


If you don't think a growing
economic inequality between the rich and the rest of us will be a problem
you're nuts. When the gap gets too big, social instability is
inevitable... witness the unending turbulent politics and wars of the
developing world.

Ummm... that's a stretch dude. I see you need some history lessons as well.


Apparently you do...


Your admonition that we're on our way to "the unending turbulent politics and wars of the developing world.." is sure to be backed by some data/precident, right...?? Or is this just YOUR opinion..??


It's the way of the world -- social inequality inevitabley preceeds social
unrest. They are prepared for this... why do you think Halliburton and
others are building these giant internment camps.

I notice you don't argue that there is not a growing gap in American
income, nor do you seem to think that's a bad idea. Once again, the greed
is showing, the "*** everyone else, I got mine" attitude that is the
Republican stock in trade.



Just because things are even
worse in Mexico doesn't mean things are great in the US... is that your
motto -- "America, better than Mexico"?


Hmmm... is your motto - - "America, all fucked up.".????


More like "America, what happened"? Because things are changing, and not
for the better.

Your motto "America, what happened..??" is very appropriate. You don't know what "happened"...


I know exactly what happened. Americans are being dumbed down & the
American worker is getting screwed. The expectations of the American
worker have been sucessfully lowered in the last generation or so. If you
don't have at least a 4-year college degree nowadays you are pretty much
fucked in the job market. And even college grads are having a pretty tough
time... people who aren't rich are coming out of college $20-30,000 in debt
from their student loans from the start. tha

Well, basically, you are pretty much without a real clue... so, unable to dissuade you from your fictionalized perception of the world, I might close in saying that "people who aren't rich are coming out of college $20-30,000 in debt" is probably wrong as well. I would take the position that the figure is HIGHER (more debt).

This comment by you seems to imply that "it's somebodys fault" the COST of higher education is so high. For convenience sake I'll assume that you feel it's the *right*, or Republicans fault.

But in one breath you say how *worthless* a college education is, then you state how much debt 'non-rich' people are taking on to GET this 'worthless' education. Is there a 'mistake' being made here...??? If so, who is making the mistake...?? And why should a college education guarantee a good job...??? Should the Govt pay for everyone to get a college education that won't get them a "good job"..???

FWIW, I've noticed two things over the last 30 yrs... way over half of the richest people I know or have met, don't have a college degree of any kind... (and these folks are REALLY, REALLY RICH)... and over the last 15 yrs I haven't met a plumber (college degree or not) that makes less than $100,000 per year. (I might add, that the plumbers WITH a college degree seem to make no more than those without a degree.)

But hey, maybe the NEXT wave of illegal aliens will take on THAT trade. This, as opposed to the bull*** you believe about 'skilled labor' immigrants. I just observed a three week 'implementation' of a corporate software package to bring a newly purchased subsidiary 'online' with the REST of this huge company. The company overseeing the job was owned/run by software "engineers" that are immigrants. They absolutely did NOT work for cheap. In fact I was surprised the corp paid so much for what their OWN IT dept could have done themselves It HAD done it in the past numerous times. It's a 'consultant' thing... I'm sure you wouldn't understand that either.

Oh well...

You are welcome to your view of reality, whatever you base it on... as am I. Someday, you may learn that "the good old days" weren't all that good... and nothing that is happening these days is "new". The technology changes but people don't (all that much).

Theres a 'coffee table' book I saw not long ago, it was front pages of the NYTimes for the last 100 yrs or so. I've seen other similar books. People have been bitching about how 'screwed up' the USA is becoming for over 100 yrs. One would think the country was a paradise back in the 1800s... it seems hard to pick a decade over the last 200 yrs that didn't contain serious warfare, govt scandals, corporate *greed*, feel-good political programs that were worthless, etc..etc..etc... and complaints as to the impending downfall of the country.

Same thing now...

.