Re: AMERICA

In article <UUQMf.1270$kp3.18@fed1read03>,
My Name <"Email Address-mr._mulay"@cox.net> wrote:
Claude V. Lucas wrote:
In article <GRPMf.1267$kp3.1093@fed1read03>,
My Name <"Email Address"@mvm.edu> wrote:

You've proven my point. *IF* you look at Taiwan -1949, the Nationalist
Chiang Kai Sheck (sp.)Government fleeing there upon Communist
Revolution, the (Nixon / Henry K.) U.S. re-do of recognizing Beijing
and de-recognizing Taipei (early 70's), then you'll see the
"ego driven spat" aspects. To add insult to injury, this one even
HAS commercial interests at stake.


It's 2006, not 1949. Pretty much everyone who was around then
is in the ground or in a rocker...

The sound of today is the cash register ringing, not
the bombs bursting in air.


The Argentine Govt needed
a distraction from severe economic difficulties at the time
so they picked a fight with the Anglos.

Taiwan/Beijing is not comparable unless the idealogues regain
control on the mainland and their economic boom fizzles.

The ideologues never LOST control. The Chinese mainland has matured to
economically surpass Taiwan.


Taiwan would put up a fight and go down in flames. China would
be pleased either way.


A stash of 25 or 30 W88s is an effective equalizer.

Something like that is probably why the mainlanders never
tried to "reunite" back when the real commies were in charge.

I think you're WAY off base assuming the PLA isn't staunchly
Communist and merely using the PRC's forray into Capitalism
to VASTLY $$$ modernize the Chinese Military.


I saw something the other day on the toob where the same person
who is the Minister of Propaganda in the Chinese Govt is also in
charge of the companies that are producing most if not all of
the income that is flowing into the PRC. The generals are driving
Lexus and Benz. A lot of the money flowing into the PRC is passing
thru into Switzerland and there is no interest is screwing up a
good thing by actually starting a war.

Claude, you're clear on the difference between the PRC and the PLA
in China aren't you? You've made this point over and over, however
I don't see forward thinking vision in your point (basically,
don't kill the Golden Goose), I see past and present. My point is
directly pointed at the future; From China's perspective, yesterday
and todays Golden Goose could well appear to be tomorrow's Rusty
Bird.

The People's Liberation Army basically *is* the government of the
People's Republic of China. That's not a big secret. Those who hold
the power are content to do so without being on TV or flying to DC
to meet with Dubya.I'm trying to understand what would be the motivation
for the PLA/PRC to "kill the Golden Goose" when there are many more golden
eggs to trade. Where I disagree is the speculation on the point at which
the Goose rusts. I have more faith in this country and it's future than
you apparently do.

You certainly *could* be right, but I'm trying to understand who would benefit.

Having established the above- the answer is this;

CHINA would benefit by clearly dominating the entire ASEAN Co-prosperity
sphere, removing the U.S. from the picture. China would assume hugely
greater regional and world stature by removing the world's super power
as an agent of their containment.

I don't see how that would fatten anyone's bank account.


The rulers of the PRC would lose much if events lead to open conflict
and things getting
blown up.

As I've continually pointed out, they're in FAR better a position to
sustain damage than we are. It's ALL in caves and beneath mountain
ranges. It was the same in Vietnam and it's the same in N. Korea.
Did I mention Afghanistan?...the USA is at the top. The bigger they are
and the higher up they are, the harder they fall. 9/11/01 showed that
in a comparitively micro-sense from a business productivity standpoint.
IF the US were to be shown to be vulnerable, the world would RUN- for
non-dallar denominated currency AND debt. The effect upon the American
economy would be cataclysmic even with a tiny 'lil nuke exchange- Say,
they incinerate Okinawa or even Camp Pendleton (N. of San Diego).

Then there would be an extensive urban renewal in a few areas
in the PRC. Everybody loses.

The world economy would suffer in that case to the point where it
would be to nobody's profit to have it happen, so if it does it
will be a screwup and not by design.


The Chinese don't seem to be driven by hatred and religion
or ideology the way that the Islamicists seem to be.

I think you're VASTLY underestimating national pride and a desire
to replace the United States as a global superpower. They are a
star awaiting to ignite and provide prosperity to a population
MANY multiples the size of the USA.

The best way to do that is to keep supplying Walmart, and to
make sure that one pops up on every corner. It's entirely possible
that there are dreams of world domination alive in Beijing, but
the means is Vox and Fender, not MIRV.




They just seem to want to fill up the wallet,

With every consecutive year of huge GDP growth, they've allocated an
even larger % to their military (PLA).

and I can't see how that can happen if most of the world is dead and the rest is glowing.
I could be wrong. I'm just looking for a motivation.

It's NO different than that of the U.S. code-colonialist / crusader /
evangilist "Freedom is on the March" spread of Capitalism bit. Question
is WHO'S capitalism...?

Armani suits and long black Benzes know no racial or national boundaries.


I can't see the current Chinese rulers blowing up the world

Niether can I...Nonetheless, THEY aren't on top, we are. Thus, we have
FAR further to fall and more to lose by even the global psychology of a
mere limited military exchange. The worlds govts., banks, ins.
companies,endowments,trusts, pension funds would bolt in a heart beat.
There IS no "Gold Standard"...it's all backed by faith (in the
whatever's deemed the "safest" nation state).

That's presuming a "limited" exchange. My money's on the scenario
that if one nuke goes off then most/all of them do and then
everybody's sitting around the campfire wondering WTF happened.

Nobody wants that to happen.



because Chiang told Mao to *** off 60 years ago...

Actually, since it was Chiang who had to run for his life to Taiwan from
Mao, I'd say you got that one backwards!

Chiang could have said "Yes Sir" and lived a comfortable life as
a subordinate, but chose to tell Mao off and move to Taiwan where
he thumbed his nose at the mainlanders till he died. Maybe somebody
still cares about that or maybe they're trying to figure out how
to do business without losing face over the hatreds of prior generations.


None of the current bunch was around for it.

Was any of the U.S. 'current bunch' around for the writing of the U.S.
Constitution?!...Yet where do we stand on defense of the principles
set forth in it?

When does *that* happen?



Maybe they *are* stupid enough to think that they can conquer the
entire planet, but I doubt it.

Well define "conquer". Evidently, the U.S. Government *is* hell bent on
being "stupid enough" to do just EXACTLY that with the entire U.S.
code-colonialist / crusader / evangilist "Freedom is on the March"
spread of Capitalism bit. Al Queda _EXISTS_ as a resistance force
against this and fired a shot over the U.S. bow on 9/11/01. The
Chinese wish to "conquer their own corner of the ASEAN co-prosperity
sphere with no "containment" interference from the USA. As to the
"entire planet", first comes your own back yard...

They already have 1.5 billion people that they barely feed.

How much do you REALLY know about how far they've come? That country
is developing faster than I think you REALIZE! Their goal IS to
develop WAY past where they ARE let alone the where they've been
you may be referring to. Time has been marching ON.

I only know what I read. There have been amazing economic advances
in some sectors and other sectors are the same as they always have been,

Of course their goal is to improve. That's a common human trait.
The Chinese traditionally have thought in terms of centuries rather
than years or decades. I have no insight into their immediate plans. I'm
just in disagreement that conflict is the way that their goals will be achieved.


Why would they want to have to deal with the
other 4.5 bil? It's just a headache that would stand in the way of
accumulating wealth.

Thailand? Vietnam? the Phillipines? Multiple S. American nations?
Labor is even CHEAPER in some of these places than within China!
WHAT headache?! One man's headache sounds like another man's
cheap labor force and long-term purchasing entity...

All of that is there to be bought. Why go through the hassle
of dealing with the problems of governing?

Claude

practices in
^^
bad edit...

?!


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