Re: Too scooped voicing on '66 Super

Hi:

Yeah, the owner has been through various speakers to try and get rid of
the ice-pick sound.
I think this is just a case of component tolerances....

Thanks...

Rich Koerner wrote:
>
> Ted wrote:
> >
> > Rich Koerner wrote:
> > >
> > > Ted wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Rich Koerner wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi:
> > > > > > I am working on a '66 Super Reverb. The complaint is that the vibrato
> > > > > > channel sounds too "scooped" (not enough mids). I've got the amp on the
> > > > > > bench, and have swept both the normal and vibrato channel with the audio
> > > > > > gen, and sure enough, on the O-scope you can see that the vibrato
> > > > > > channel is indeed, more scooped than the normal channel. The mids are
> > > > > > down about 70% of what the normal channel is. (This is with the mid
> > > > > > control on the vibrato channel set to the same resistance value as the
> > > > > > fixed resistor in the normal channel!). Looking at the schematic, the
> > > > > > tone control circuits for Normal and Vibrato are basically the same. The
> > > > > > amp was gone over a couple years ago by another tech, and all the
> > > > > > coupling caps have been replaced. All the caps and resistors are the
> > > > > > correct labeled value.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I am thinking that one or more caps are out of tolerance, or at
> > > > > > the extreme of the tolerance limit. Any thoughts on this problem???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ted
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi:
> > > > I don't quite understand what you are saying, sorry. What do you mean,
> > > > "They should it to the approximate volume from the speakers." ?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > >
> > > Let's change this whole thing.
> > >
> > > Set BOTH channels to Volumes to 3, with all the tone controls set to 1.
> > >
> > > Plug into the VIB channel.
> > >
> > > Then, hit the strings on the guitar.
> > >
> > > You should hear little to nothing come out of the speakers.
> > >
> > > If you do get a fair amount of sound out of the speakers, you have a problem with the mid control.
> > >
> > > If you have little to nothing coming out of the speakers, continue on.
> > >
> > > Hit the strings again.
> > >
> > > While the strings are still sustaining,...... turn up the treble control to 10, and back to 1.
> > >
> > > It should work like a volume control for the highs.
> > >
> > > Now turn the mid control up and down with the sustaining strings.
> > >
> > > It should also act as a volume control for the mids from your guitar.
> > >
> > > Now turn the bass control up and down with the sustaining strings.
> > >
> > > It should also act as a volume control for the bass sound from your guitar.
> > >
> > > If this is exactly the case. Things are more right than wrong.
> > >
> > > Now, do the same thing using the NORMAL channel with the treble and bass controls.
> > >
> > > The tone controls, if working normally, will do this same thing in BOTH channels, with the SAME
> > > volume level changes heard from the speakers.
> > >
> > > Report back the results you had, when you did this.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Rich Koerner,
> > > Time Electronics.
> > > http://www.timeelect.com
> > >
> > > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
> > > Music & Studio Production,
> > > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
> >
> > Hi Rich:
> > Well, I just tried that experiment, and everything's fine. Yeah, it's a
> > real subtle prob, the mids are down to about 70%, which really isn't
> > that much, since sound is perceived logorithmically anyway, but the
> > owner can hear it, so it is a problem! That's why I'm thinking just
> > recap the whole thing, and cross my fingers, but I'm open to ideas!!
> >
> > Ted
>
> A re-cap may, or may not be the answer. I'd just tack 'em in, and see.
>
> I don't mess with them, unless the owner asks to have them replaced.
>
> Most times, those old blue bullets hang in there.
>
> Check the mid range pot. Measure the value to be correct.
>
> Also, you are in the crazy speaker zone with that 66.
>
> There were a lot of different speakers Fender put in those things.
>
> It could be the nature of the speaker in there.
>
> There were a lot of different ceramic types used.
>
> Oh, one other thought, for a teat.
>
> I just made this move with my Super on the load to check if mine did this test.
>
> It does.
>
> If you set the mid on 10, and the bass and treble on 1.
>
> Put the volume on 10 and go for it.
>
> If you don't get the output stage into clip with a stock strat, you have an amp problem.
>
> If you see the wave clipping, chances are good, that's just the way the Super is.
>
> I just made that move with my Super on the test load to check if mine did that.
>
> It does.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rich Koerner,
> Time Electronics.
> http://www.timeelect.com
>
> Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
> Music & Studio Production,
> Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
.

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