Re: Too scooped voicing on '66 Super



Ted wrote:
>
> Rich Koerner wrote:
> >
> > Ted wrote:
> > >
> > > Rich Koerner wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ted wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi:
> > > > > I am working on a '66 Super Reverb. The complaint is that the vibrato
> > > > > channel sounds too "scooped" (not enough mids). I've got the amp on the
> > > > > bench, and have swept both the normal and vibrato channel with the audio
> > > > > gen, and sure enough, on the O-scope you can see that the vibrato
> > > > > channel is indeed, more scooped than the normal channel. The mids are
> > > > > down about 70% of what the normal channel is. (This is with the mid
> > > > > control on the vibrato channel set to the same resistance value as the
> > > > > fixed resistor in the normal channel!). Looking at the schematic, the
> > > > > tone control circuits for Normal and Vibrato are basically the same. The
> > > > > amp was gone over a couple years ago by another tech, and all the
> > > > > coupling caps have been replaced. All the caps and resistors are the
> > > > > correct labeled value.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I am thinking that one or more caps are out of tolerance, or at
> > > > > the extreme of the tolerance limit. Any thoughts on this problem???
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi:
> > > I don't quite understand what you are saying, sorry. What do you mean,
> > > "They should it to the approximate volume from the speakers." ?
> > >
> > > Regards
> >
> > Let's change this whole thing.
> >
> > Set BOTH channels to Volumes to 3, with all the tone controls set to 1.
> >
> > Plug into the VIB channel.
> >
> > Then, hit the strings on the guitar.
> >
> > You should hear little to nothing come out of the speakers.
> >
> > If you do get a fair amount of sound out of the speakers, you have a problem with the mid control.
> >
> > If you have little to nothing coming out of the speakers, continue on.
> >
> > Hit the strings again.
> >
> > While the strings are still sustaining,...... turn up the treble control to 10, and back to 1.
> >
> > It should work like a volume control for the highs.
> >
> > Now turn the mid control up and down with the sustaining strings.
> >
> > It should also act as a volume control for the mids from your guitar.
> >
> > Now turn the bass control up and down with the sustaining strings.
> >
> > It should also act as a volume control for the bass sound from your guitar.
> >
> > If this is exactly the case. Things are more right than wrong.
> >
> > Now, do the same thing using the NORMAL channel with the treble and bass controls.
> >
> > The tone controls, if working normally, will do this same thing in BOTH channels, with the SAME
> > volume level changes heard from the speakers.
> >
> > Report back the results you had, when you did this.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rich Koerner,
> > Time Electronics.
> > http://www.timeelect.com
> >
> > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
> > Music & Studio Production,
> > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
>
> Hi Rich:
> Well, I just tried that experiment, and everything's fine. Yeah, it's a
> real subtle prob, the mids are down to about 70%, which really isn't
> that much, since sound is perceived logorithmically anyway, but the
> owner can hear it, so it is a problem! That's why I'm thinking just
> recap the whole thing, and cross my fingers, but I'm open to ideas!!
>
> Ted

A re-cap may, or may not be the answer. I'd just tack 'em in, and see.

I don't mess with them, unless the owner asks to have them replaced.

Most times, those old blue bullets hang in there.

Check the mid range pot. Measure the value to be correct.

Also, you are in the crazy speaker zone with that 66.

There were a lot of different speakers Fender put in those things.

It could be the nature of the speaker in there.

There were a lot of different ceramic types used.




Oh, one other thought, for a teat.

I just made this move with my Super on the load to check if mine did this test.

It does.



If you set the mid on 10, and the bass and treble on 1.

Put the volume on 10 and go for it.

If you don't get the output stage into clip with a stock strat, you have an amp problem.

If you see the wave clipping, chances are good, that's just the way the Super is.

I just made that move with my Super on the test load to check if mine did that.

It does.


Regards,

Rich Koerner,
Time Electronics.
http://www.timeelect.com

Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
Music & Studio Production,
Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
.

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