Re: Attn: Jim Anable questions re Mesa Mark amps
- From: Jim Anable <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:09:44 -0800
Jim Anable wrote:
Pat wrote:
Hi Jim,
I've been following your post regarding your Mesa Mark III amp. I have a Mark IIB that I have never been happy with. I realize your's is a III but I'm hoping you might be able to help me get a better sound out of my MkII. It is a 60W Mark IIb with EQ and 1-12" EV speaker.
Well, one change made in the III series was to use the 90W Celestion Black Shadow in the 60W (and EV in the 100W).
I bought it new in
1982, played it for a while, and it has been just setting for many
years. After seeing you post, I dug it out and now recall why it hasn't
been in use.
This thing sounds very boxy to me as opposed to my Vibrolux Reverb
(2-10") which has a very open sound. I noticed you said you like the
Celestion speaker better than the EV. I wonder if a Celestion would open
up the sound a bit. As of right now, it doesn't hold a candle to the VR
either clean or overdriven.
I think that it's worth a try. But before doing that, have you tried it with other cabs that you know that you like? You can find the 90W speaker on the used market. It is a desirable (in demand) item, so they usually aren't "cheap."
While these are different amps, maybe you could post your settings. I'd like to try them as a starting point. It seems a shame for this amp to just set and collect dust.
I'm not trying to weasel out of this, but settings on this amp are very
touchy. They would not translate, unless we were using the same pickups and/or guitar. I tend to play this amp with my EMG equipped guitars, so my amp gain (FIRST volume control) would be MUCH lower than passive humbuckers, and lower yet than single coils. Even so, I give some suggestions below.
I've also found that real Mullard preamp tubes work best. Now, I'm using them because I have them. I realize that it ain't cheap to feed all of your amps Mullards. I'm also using Sylvania 6L6GC, the tube that this power amp was designed around.
To further complicate matters, when I want more punch and bottom, I use it with a Hiwatt/Fane 4x12 (early 80's model).
Any pointers you can provide are most appreciated.
Do you have the user's manual for this amp? They give suggestions for initial settings: http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark%20IIb.pdf For the Mark III basic settings, see http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark%20III.pdfNONE
Link SNAFU, the word NONE belongs to the next sentence. Correction: http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark%20III.pdf
of my settings are
close to their suggestions, but it might be a starting point for you, then modify from there.
I also found this site: http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/MarkIIB.html
With MY guitars, the suggestion of initial gain at 7 can end up sounding like @ss on rhythm and lead modes. I'm more likely to stay around 2 to 4. This is HEAVILY dependent on the output level of your pickups. And much of this depends on whether I'm attempting to get three good tones out of it. That can be tricky, and involves dialing it in to the specific guitar to get just the right early distortion when switching clean to rhythm. ...but most of my guitars give a HOT signal to begin with, so my settings may not translate.
PREFACE: Even though Mesa says use the first control at around 7, I suggest not going ape with the first gain level! It affects the entire circuit. Unlike many amps, the gain sections come AFTER the clean in the circuit. Many amps put the boost before the clean section. Not Mesa.
Start with as low of a VOLUME setting that makes you happy (it affects the rhythm, as you know). Don't even think about the lead gain until you are happy with the clean to rhythm transition.
Ideally, you want to set VOLUME to get a good clean AND a good rhythm. But you may have to also use your guitar volume knob a bit, when you set up for good clean, rhythm AND lead (all at once).
Here's one way that works for me. It may or may not help you.
SETUP TIPS FOR MARK III:
I often start by dialing in the rhythm gain level. Grab the guitar that you intend to use for cleans. With guitar volume at 10, select rhythm on the amp. Set the VOLUME to the lowest setting that gives just enough rhythm crunch with guitar volume on 10 (after all, you can always hit lead and dial down guitar volume for additional crunch). Then switch back to clean, and if you're happy with the two respective gains, you've cleared the first hurdle. If you're not happy, you may have to back off on the guitar volume for cleans.
REMINDER: Once you get your VOLUME set for a good cleans to rhythm transition, use MASTER VOLUME for all volume changes. Once you dial in VOLUME, don't touch it!
After you find the right spot for the VOLUME, tweak your tone controls. This is sometimes easier said than done. I hope you have the optional EQ! Otherwise, you are going to be limited to a middy tone.
The first consideration is PRESENCE, on the rear panel. If I want to end up with a classic rock or blues gain, I'll put presence at 0 to 3. If I want to end up with high gain or metal, I'll put the presence at 7, give or take 2.
After selecting presence level, I like to adjust the tone pots with the EQ off (flat) to get the best possible clean. The Mark III is even more complicated that the Mark II, because I have more push/pulls.
Again, DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT LEAD gain level or tones until you get your cleans down.
TURN OFF the EQ, or set it flat.
For mids, start at 0. Bump it up a bit if you must, but at least with the Celestion, these amps are voiced middy.
Bass moves around, depending on cab. And I usually boost the bass for lead with the EQ, so it usually starts out rather low on the pot. Try to use just enough to give your clean tones enough bottom. My amp adds deep boost pull switch on the master, and a DEEP boost on the master (instead of gain boost). I rarely use the deep boost, preferring to use the EQ.
Treble and presence are very interactive. My treble can see 7, but not with the presence cranked. With low presence settings, I use higher treble. With higher presence settings, I generally use lower treble, unless I want a piercing high gain or metal tone. I generally use higher presence for metal tones, and lower presence for smoother tones (again, compensating with the treble to match the presence). ...so, your treble setting will depend on whether your end goal is metal/high gain, or classic rock/blues.
Treble can also take away some of the overt mids, which is a good thing for clean. ...and then there's that treble shift pull. Try it both ways, get the best clean tone for your ears.
Now, double check your clean to rhythm transition. You may need to tweak the VOLUME slightly. You need to balance your tone setting with the VOLUME control so that it works when you switch from clean to rhythm. Spend some time to DO IT RIGHT. Not happy with the rhythm tone? I hope you have the optional EQ...
Now go to your LEAD DRIVE setting. Grab the guitar that you intend to use most for distortion. Dial in barely enough LEAD DRIVE for the highest level that you want with guitar volume on 10. Don't go ape with the LEAD GAIN setting, or it'll get mushy and buzzy. Back off on the guitar volume to clean it up a bit, when you don't want full gain.
My LEAD DRIVE usually resides from 2 to 7. Lower for classic rock/blues and higher for high gain tones. LEAD MASTER is self explanatory, for volume boost. If your playing loud enough, this can also kick in the power tube distortion.
Now focus on the GRAPHIC EQ SETTINGS, fine tuning for lead tone. I'm usually after some degree of metal, so I generally use a modified V, with bottom emphasis and mids cut. The high end level depends on whether I want metal/high gain, or blues/classic rock. If I was only blues/classic rock with no metal, I'd use a flatter setting. And my "V" is subject to change. It gets more of a V on my own, and flatter when I jam.
Now, toggle back between lead and rhythm, and tweak the EQ a bit, if you must. But don't kill your lead tone! I use the footswitch so that I can run rhythm with or without EQ. Many guys will just use the setting that automatically cuts the EQ for cleans.
(NOTE: If you have an emphasis on clean tone, leave the EQ on all of the time, and get the best compromise between cleans and higher gain.)
If you do not have the EQ, you are at a distinct disadvantage. Personally, I wouldn't own a Mark series without the optional EQ. The optional reverb is also very nice, but that's obvious stuff and doesn't need discussion (just use it last, and dial in to taste).
Again: That first VOLUME is what often throws guys. The Mark II site above states it pretty concisely:
"Note on Rhythm/Lead Mode: Overall tone warmth and volume is determined by Volume 1 and Master 1 and shaped by the controls as above. Its stage effects the Lead Mode. When in lead mode, these two controls remain functional. With activation of the lead relay, the Lead Drive regulates the amount of tube saturation and its overall loudness is controlled by the Lead Master. With a little time, one can easily get the hang of this interaction."
Final thought: If none of this helps, don't let this amp decompose in the closet. It is in demand. Sell it, and buy something that makes you happy.
.
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