'Was America Attacked by Muslims on 9/11?' was/Re: Did BinLaden mastermind 9-11?

On Sep 13, 9:40 pm, rAzZbAr <gl...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 13, 4:38 pm, Sanity <sanity-cla...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 13, 2:33 pm, rAzZbAr <gl...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, we need to understand that this is a popular movement, not an
organized institution.

"we"?  You still seem to think 9-11 was perpetrated by arabs.  I think
it was a "false flag" operation like the USS Maine and the Gulf of
Tonken incident.

Let's put it this way: I believe it really was the Japanese who bombed
Pearl Harbor. Now, don't go thinking that you know, but I don't, that
Roosevelt knew something was coming. Hell, my MOTHER knew.

I mean, do you acknowledge that there really, really are people in the
Islamic world that are trying to *** us over any way they can? Open
BOTH eyes.

There are violent nut cases in all countries who say they are
justified by every religion.


Having trouble with my use of "us"? Take it in the geographical sense.
Yes, "we" need to undersand that there are bad people who have nothing
to do with the "gummint". Arabs. And Iranians. Not all, not most, but
enough to crash airliners into the rest of our skyscrapers.

How do you propose to spare the innocent? Does saying "collateral
damage" excuse the slaughter? Will it take genocide to make you feel
secure? I don't believe the Gummint's story that 9-11 was perpetrated
by Arabs in the first place. The story is an empty allegation devoid
of empirical evidence. Osama is an Arab, but those towlheads playing
on the monkey bars might be blond haired blue eyed Sweeds for all I
know.


It attracts followers from a wide spectrum of
nationality and economic background. I see a classic recruit being
some alienated teenager who may not even be from a moslem background

Forsooth?  Did you actually “see a classic recruit” or are you
imagining things?  I “see” Razzbar buying into what the Gummint is
selling without thinking about it much.

Please don't insult my intelligence like that! Yes, I have met
radicals. Right here in river city, folks. And in Hawaii.

Please don't make such admissions on Usenet...


In Vietnam, under the false flag pretext of protecting the US from the
imminent threat of the spread of communism, when the real deal meal
was the oil under the South China Sea etc.,
 Beware of symbolism, it
can kill you…

Yip.

(John Walker, from Marin county), or somebody living in a Paris suburb
from Algerian background.

I think that's your imagination talking, not your reason.

“Reason obeys itself; Ignorance submits to what is dictated to it.” –
Thomas Paine

Reason IS imagination, dude. What -- you think I just sit around
watching tEEvEE going "uh-huh" all the time?

Immagination is only a part of reasoning, the two terms are not
synonyms. One can immagine a castle in the air but trying to build
one is unreasonable.


I've met several "AWA"s here and there. I've heard punks say they were
moslems to try and scare people. It's an identity which is fed by the
popular media's characterizing Islam as inherently violent. Just like
you have kids who wannabee hippies, so they let their hair get all
tangled and don't wash or do anything productuve, to fit the
stereotype that the popular culture carries.

Typecasting is a MAJOR, MAJOR psychological force. "And they became as
they were beheld".

Whazzat a Bible verse or something?


And as long as the idea that Islam is violent is put forward without
challenge, more and more people will be attracted to the radical
element.
[...]   The US Gummint is the one promoting the idea that Islam
is aggressive; AL-QUR'AN talks about Jihad as a war of DEFENSE

The best translation of 'jihad' is 'crusade'. They are almost exactly
equivalent in what they imply.

"almost" doesn't cut it.

To a westerner, 'crusade' means one
thing. To an arab, it means quite another. Vice versa the word
'jihad'. Both mean "struggle within" at one level, but can be blown up
to mean literal war by some firebrand.

Okay, kinda like Dubya promoting Peace by starting wars. Yeah, there
are nut-jobs everywhere. How do you propose to spare the innocent?
Does saying "collateral damage" excuse the slaughter? Will it take
genocide to make you feel secure? I don't believe the Gummint's story
that 9-11 was perpetrated by Arabs in the first place.


Which is how the radical islamic ***-stirers use it -- just like a
right wing christian will say "kill a commie for christ", they will
tell their congregation that "we gotta go on a jihad against the great
satan". Meaning take that holy war within yourself to the streets,
baby.

But call it what you may, the koran says a lot of stuff. I am not
disputing what you say about the rules for warfare it states, and
could add to it, but it doesn't matter, because like the bible,
there's like, "something for everybody" in it, and it can be cherry
picked for just about anything you want it to appear to be.

only...  Oh, and Osama is not the duly authorized spokesman for Islam
any more than G.W. Bush is a source of truth.  In short, just because
the Gummint says Islam is the boogeyman don't scare me none.

GW Bush, none other, said that this is NOT a war on Islam.

Then he and his cronies turn right around and say "Islamic
extreamists" a lot too.

Get over
the "gummint".

The Gummint is a rubber stamp for whomever is president and complicit
because of it.

It's the media, especially those talk radio traitors to
reason who are stirring up the ***. It's the corporations. It's the
right wing, pseudo-christian, pseudo-conservative, power hungry ***
stirers. And let's not forget that there are equivalent forces on the
"other side", i.e. in the Islamic world, stirring just as hard. They
all play to fear, jealousy and ignorance. Emotion over reason. The
'gummit' just hangs around doing whatever it takes to get bribes from
the corporations.

That includes this God damn war!


***************************************************************************­*****



Want to make a bomb? Take equal parts politics and religion. Stir in
some fear, jealousy, and dispair. Add ignorance, pride, hope, and self
conciousness. Exploit.

See, it isn't so much a matter of finding the people who worked out
the details of those attacks. It's a matter of defusing that bomb.

I dissent from that view.  I don't want to find 'em and "MAKE THEM
PAY!" eye for an eye G. Dubya Bush style, all I want is an end to the

THAT'S NOT MY VIEW! SHEESH! Either you can't read, or you're trying to
miscast me (again).

I really struggled with that last sentence, and finally gave up with
"defusing", it being a common metaphor. Please, try and read for
'gist'. I'm talking about psychology. The 'ingredients' of terrorism.
Why people do it. Ignorance, fear, pride, hope, selfishness, jealousy,
despair... Same thing that motivates basically decent people to vote
for obvious punks like GW Bush. The same thing that talk radio feeds.

Usenet feeds the same thing. I am not an omnicient saint. My bad for
not making it clearer that I was speaking generally not personally. I
have no desire to demonize you Razz. Lastly: for all his stupid blind
faith in the Repiglickens I think even Limbau [sp?] rings the bell of
truth once in a while.

Sanity
.