Re: Did BinLaden mastermind 9-11?

On Sep 13, 4:38 pm, Sanity <sanity-cla...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 13, 2:33 pm, rAzZbAr <gl...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Well, we need to understand that this is a popular movement, not an
organized institution.

"we"? You still seem to think 9-11 was perpetrated by arabs. I think
it was a "false flag" operation like the USS Maine and the Gulf of
Tonken incident.

Let's put it this way: I believe it really was the Japanese who bombed
Pearl Harbor. Now, don't go thinking that you know, but I don't, that
Roosevelt knew something was coming. Hell, my MOTHER knew.

I mean, do you acknowledge that there really, really are people in the
Islamic world that are trying to *** us over any way they can? Open
BOTH eyes.

Having trouble with my use of "us"? Take it in the geographical sense.
Yes, "we" need to undersand that there are bad people who have nothing
to do with the "gummint". Arabs. And Iranians. Not all, not most, but
enough to crash airliners into the rest of our skyscrapers.



It attracts followers from a wide spectrum of
nationality and economic background. I see a classic recruit being
some alienated teenager who may not even be from a moslem background

Forsooth? Did you actually “see a classic recruit” or are you
imagining things? I “see” Razzbar buying into what the Gummint is
selling without thinking about it much.

Please don't insult my intelligence like that! Yes, I have met
radicals. Right here in river city, folks. And in Hawaii.

In Vietnam, under the false flag pretext of protecting the US from the
imminent threat of the spread of communism, when the real deal meal
was the oil under the South China Sea etc.,


Beware of symbolism, it
can kill you…

Yip.

(John Walker, from Marin county), or somebody living in a Paris suburb
from Algerian background.

I think that's your imagination talking, not your reason.

“Reason obeys itself; Ignorance submits to what is dictated to it.” –
Thomas Paine

Reason IS imagination, dude. What -- you think I just sit around
watching tEEvEE going "uh-huh" all the time?

I've met several "AWA"s here and there. I've heard punks say they were
moslems to try and scare people. It's an identity which is fed by the
popular media's characterizing Islam as inherently violent. Just like
you have kids who wannabee hippies, so they let their hair get all
tangled and don't wash or do anything productuve, to fit the
stereotype that the popular culture carries.

Typecasting is a MAJOR, MAJOR psychological force. "And they became as
they were beheld".




And as long as the idea that Islam is violent is put forward without
challenge, more and more people will be attracted to the radical
element.

[...] The US Gummint is the one promoting the idea that Islam
is aggressive; AL-QUR'AN talks about Jihad as a war of DEFENSE

The best translation of 'jihad' is 'crusade'. They are almost exactly
equivalent in what they imply. To a westerner, 'crusade' means one
thing. To an arab, it means quite another. Vice versa the word
'jihad'. Both mean "struggle within" at one level, but can be blown up
to mean literal war by some firebrand.

Which is how the radical islamic ***-stirers use it -- just like a
right wing christian will say "kill a commie for christ", they will
tell their congregation that "we gotta go on a jihad against the great
satan". Meaning take that holy war within yourself to the streets,
baby.

But call it what you may, the koran says a lot of stuff. I am not
disputing what you say about the rules for warfare it states, and
could add to it, but it doesn't matter, because like the bible,
there's like, "something for everybody" in it, and it can be cherry
picked for just about anything you want it to appear to be.

only... Oh, and Osama is not the duly authorized spokesman for Islam
any more than G.W. Bush is a source of truth. In short, just because
the Gummint says Islam is the boogeyman don't scare me none.

GW Bush, none other, said that this is NOT a war on Islam. Get over
the "gummint". It's the media, especially those talk radio traitors to
reason who are stirring up the ***. It's the corporations. It's the
right wing, pseudo-christian, pseudo-conservative, power hungry ***
stirers. And let's not forget that there are equivalent forces on the
"other side", i.e. in the Islamic world, stirring just as hard. They
all play to fear, jealousy and ignorance. Emotion over reason. The
'gummit' just hangs around doing whatever it takes to get bribes from
the corporations.

********************************************************************************

Want to make a bomb? Take equal parts politics and religion. Stir in
some fear, jealousy, and dispair. Add ignorance, pride, hope, and self
conciousness. Exploit.

See, it isn't so much a matter of finding the people who worked out
the details of those attacks. It's a matter of defusing that bomb.

I dissent from that view. I don't want to find 'em and "MAKE THEM
PAY!" eye for an eye G. Dubya Bush style, all I want is an end to the

THAT'S NOT MY VIEW! SHEESH! Either you can't read, or you're trying to
miscast me (again).

I really struggled with that last sentence, and finally gave up with
"defusing", it being a common metaphor. Please, try and read for
'gist'. I'm talking about psychology. The 'ingredients' of terrorism.
Why people do it. Ignorance, fear, pride, hope, selfishness, jealousy,
despair... Same thing that motivates basically decent people to vote
for obvious punks like GW Bush. The same thing that talk radio feeds.

.