Re: Rebirthing in Wyoming
- From: Old Tom <rascal_51@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
On Apr 1, 1:07 am, hj st <hjayst...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 31, 5:56 pm, Old Tom <rascal...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 31, 2:46 pm, hj st <hjayst...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 31, 1:31 pm, Old Tom <rascal...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
it's as if you expect some
'official' statement declaring the groups 'unofficiality' to hold any
weight! if there *is* the power to officially declare 'the groups'
will (as you seem to believe), then your point is moot, your game is
over, it *is* private.
...
Condition A - Group holding a group event - "ultimate beneficiary' is
the group
or
Condition B - Group holding a public event (everybelly is solicited to
come) - "ultimate beneficiary' is the general public
The Group use status is related to who is the ultimate benficiary of
the use of the public lands. For them to be permitted to suspend
Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and similar Acts, the Forest
Service argues that Condition A is true. I complain that it is not a
private group event, it is an event for the general public (I don't
agree with Condition B - I just point to it as an alternate
possibility to Condition A). I complain that the lack of approprate
regulations by the FS is n o basis for suspending citizens civil
rights protections.
It is a public-use event not a group-use event.
Old Tom
doesn't this still come back to what improvements toward access can be
had, or expected by law, in a wilderness area? was this ever
resolved?
peace,
quiet,..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Title VI doesn't say anything about disability rights. Look it up.
Here's the statement from the FS Faq sheet.
14.Are noncommercial group uses subject to Title VI of the Civil
Rights Act of 1964?
No. Generally, Title VI would not apply to noncommercial group use of
National Forest System lands. There is no "federal financial
assistance" as defined under implementing regulations because the use
is casual and transient. In addition, Title VI only applies when
federal funding is given to a non-federal entity, which in turn
provides financial assistance to the ultimate beneficiary. Title VI
does not apply to noncommercial group uses because the permit holder
is the ultimate beneficiary of the permit.
The FS also says that all other Civil Rights protections are also
suspended
Old Tom
"In addition, Title VI only applies when federal funding is given to a
non-federal entity, which in turn provides financial assistance to the
ultimate beneficiary."
so, in either case, A or B, or any tangent, the point is moot, as
whoever the true beneficiary is, there is no entity receiving federal
funding, in turn providing financial assitance to either itself, or
the public.
You need some more practice in speaking federal bureaucrat speak.
Federal financial assistance includes all the extra resources they
provide such as all the extra LEOs, extra Resource people, extra costs
bringing folks in from around the country, time and money on the
operational plan, garbage bags, etc.
The entity receiving the 'federal funding' is whoever is the
designated party is under the Non-commercial group regulations (permit
or no permit) such as the RFOLL.
The question is then are the resources from the Feds to the RFOLL used
for the benefit of the RFOLL (private) or are they intended for the
general public?
I say if it's advertised to everybelly and everybelly is solicited to
come then it is a public event and the use by the FS of the NGU
regulations (incl suspension of Civil Rights) is incorrect and cannot
be applied.
'Course the FS disagrees with me - waiting to see what the USDA Office
of Civil rihts says. They did accept the validity of the complaint.
Old Tom
it's not the issue of the beneficiary being either the nongroup or the
public, or permit or no, but the fact that there's no "federal
financial assistance" being funneled through/to said nongroup and/or
public, is there?
if those rights were present on that land april 1st, they should
equally apply july 4th, i agree.
trying to grok your case,... where's your rock, where is your hard
place?
peace,
quiet,..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
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