Re: No, Chuck, please don't do that (was: USFS Conference Call in March)

On Feb 9, 8:34 pm, Sanity <sanity-cla...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 9, 8:06 pm, Carla <ca...@xxxxxxx> wrote:





whistler wrote:
On Feb 9, 5:25 pm, Chuck <livingli...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm tempted to tap into this conference call simply to hear what's
being discussed.  And while I'm at it, see if the alternative method
being implemented is still "under" the Reg. wherein Section 9 would
still apply.  If not, I would be inclined to ask for that in writing.
If so, though I wouldn't expect it to happen, to have that information
added to the Howdy Folks (couldn't hurt to ask).  Even if it is a
group (and it appears that's the case here in the US anyway) I should
hope there would remain an honest effort to keep the gathers aware of
their liabilities.  But what's most likely to happen is I'll forget..
I'm not even sure I'm all that interested and that's yet a long way
off.

     Chuck- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Oh NO, Chuck, please don't do THAT,  besides iff'n you did you might
later regret something could not undo.  And you might get
inadvertently conscripted to the ominous, nefarious, omniscient
NIRMNT.
    Far better you should just scratch your head in thoughtfulness
till you are bald and bleeding.

And god/dess forbid he or anyone else objecting to using an Operating
Plan as an alernative to a permit should actually read the Regs. If they
did, they would find that there is no "Section 9" in the Regs. Section 9
appears only in the permit. No permit, no Section 9. They might lose
their entire argument. Can't have that!

Cf. Scottie's analysis.  Basically, the LEOs can argue that when a
group negotiates for an accomodation they are collectively asking
permission; ergo, the strictures of the Permit form are in full force
and effect whether or not one is signed.  "The whole Rainbow Group was
invited in on the conferrence call.  It was posted on their blog. They
all knew. Ignorance excuses not." etc.
"Policy is everything." - Carla
Policy is an ad hoc invention, and gets reinvented at the whim of the
oligarchy.  There will be newbees showing up for a big wild party in
the woods, blissfully unaware that, by their attendance, they are
joining a group that has negotiated permission to peaceably assemble.

No one has to negotiate permission or seek accomidation to enjoy a
right.  "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" is a right.

Rights are not privileges.  Liberty is not license.  Freedom is not
slavery.  Ignorance is not strength.  War is not Peace.



And god/dess forbid that anyone should listen in to the conference call
and discover that no dirty dealing is going on. Can't have people
becoming informed as to what people are actually doing and saying. No,
Chuck, please don't THAT.  ;-)

Carla is not being honest.

Disney won't sell copies of "The Song of the South" wherein Uncle
Rhemus relates how Brer Rabbit cons the fox into throwin' him into the
briar patch ["PLEASE don't throw me in the briar patch!"], but I
remembers it Carla.   ;^)

Heretofore Mark Rey has been saying the full force of the Regulation
was going to be kind of on the back burner,  but I'd give odds he will
never say IN WRITING the financial responsability cause stated in
Paragraph #9 of the Permit Form is off the table.....

Do what da Spirit say DO Chuck!   :^)

Sanity Clause RE [Rascal Emeritus]
CAVEAT: The measurable distance relivant to "We're right behind you
all the way!" is often proportionate to the dire of the circumstance.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In 36CFR 251.54(g)3 says

(ii) An authorized officer shall grant an application for a special
use authorization for a noncommercial group use upon a determination
that:
(H) A person or persons 21 years of age or older have been
designated to sign and do sign a special use authorization on behalf
of
the applicant.

it then says in

(iii) If an authorized officer denies an application because it does
not meet the criteria in paragraphs (g)(3)(ii)(A) through (g)(3)(ii)
(H)
of this section, the authorized officer shall notify the applicant in
writing of the reasons for the denial. If an alternative time, place,
or
manner will allow the applicant to meet the eight evaluation
criteria,
an authorized officer shall offer that alternative.

Their offering an alternative manner, it seems to me, is required to
if an alternative exists - 'shall offer' is pretty strong.

None of this however changes the implementing regulations. They are
part of the implememting regulations. What was true with a signature
is still true without a signature.

Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is still suspended. The
government says it is legal to discriminate at a public event held on
public land.

That's the way I understand it.

;-)

Old Tom
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: No, Chuck, please dont do that
    ... Plan as an alernative to a permit should actually read the Regs. ... an authorized officer shall offer that alternative. ... is still true without a signature. ...
    (alt.gathering.rainbow)
  • Re: No, Chuck, please dont do that (was: USFS Conference Call in March)
    ... Plan as an alernative to a permit should actually read the Regs. ... An authorized officer shall grant an application for a special ... Plunker and the Hight Holies are doing everything they can to make the ...
    (alt.gathering.rainbow)
  • Re: No, Chuck, please dont do that
    ... Plan as an alernative to a permit should actually read the Regs. ... an authorized officer shall offer that alternative. ... is still true without a signature. ...
    (alt.gathering.rainbow)
  • Re: No, Chuck, please dont do that
    ... Plan as an alernative to a permit should actually read the Regs. ... an authorized officer shall offer that alternative. ... is still true without a signature. ...
    (alt.gathering.rainbow)
  • Re: No, Chuck, please dont do that
    ... Plan as an alernative to a permit should actually read the Regs. ... use authorization for a noncommercial group use upon a determination ... is still true without a signature. ...
    (alt.gathering.rainbow)