Re: US Troops in Iraq to get ETHICS training!!


Thunder wrote:
"Sanity" <sanity-clause@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1149300869.445089.277540@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


You are correct under the letter of the law, "because free
will is
still involved" because the troops are only bound by oath
"to obey
lawful orders" and it whould be a perfectly legal action
for a whole
company or more of troop to announce: "This is not a
lawful war!" and
TAKE a plane to Sweeden. Sweeden does not extradite
deserters. OTOH,
war is hell and I support the troops not the war, so I'm
still not
about to call the soldiers all murderers.

Peace,
Sanity

I respect that. Honestly I do. That's your thing and my
thing is my thing. I see 2 things: 1. There are lots of
gung-ho types who actually take pleasure in killing.

My problem with what you said is that it lumped all US troops under
that same blame.

2. I think people are often misled and confused, and in thinking
where best to pledge their allegiance, they bow down to the
biggest, meanest dog.

Wolf pack mentation with Dubya as the alpha male. That fits.


Speaking of dogs, here's a case in point (No, it's not
murder, but is somewhat similar essentially, to what I
object to):

US Soldier Gets Hard Labor for Abu Ghraib Abuse
Reuters

Friday 02 June 2006

Fort Meade, Maryland - A US Army dog handler was demoted
and sentenced to 90 days of hard labor on Friday for using
his dog to assault a prisoner at the Abu Ghraib prison in
Iraq.

Sgt. Santos Cardona, 32, of Fullerton, California, the
11th US soldier convicted for abusing Abu Ghraib detainees,
also will have to forfeit $7,200 in pay, an Army spokeswoman
said. He will not be confined during the term of hard labor
but will be demoted to specialist.

Well isn't that special? I wonder how they came up with $7,200 and
whose pocket it'll go into......


A US military court-martial panel of four officers and
three enlisted personnel convicted Cardona on Thursday of
two counts that could have led to 3 1/2 years in prison -
failing to handle his dog properly and using the unmuzzled
Belgian shepherd to threaten a detainee with a force "likely
to produce death or grievous bodily harm."

He was cleared on seven other counts, including
accusations of letting his dog bite a prisoner and of
conspiring with another dog handler to frighten inmates into
defecating and urinating on themselves.

Cardona's defense attorneys had sought to portray him as
a victim of unclear orders and an ambiguous chain of command
that silently condoned using dogs to terrorize Iraqi
prisoners in hopes of getting more intelligence out of them.

Cardona's case arose after the 2004 release of
photographs of Army personnel at Abu Ghraib letting snarling
dogs intimidate prisoners and forcing the inmates into
humiliating poses.

Bragging rights will no longer include cameras.


Cardona's verdict and sentencing come as the military
investigates new allegations that US Marines killed 24 Iraqi
civilians in an unprovoked attack in November in the town of
Haditha. The US military also is investigating four other
cases in which US troops are alleged to have killed Iraqi
civilians.

Larry Cox, the executive director of Amnesty
International USA, said Cardona's acquittal on the most
serious charge and relatively light sentence were "yet
another example of a punishment that belittles the
seriousness of the crime."

I agree and feel sure the Iraqis see it the same way.


"In addition, we are disturbed by the fact that
commanding officers have been granted immunity to testify
rather than held accountable for crimes committed under
their watch," he said.

Including the Commander in Chief. Dubya had no legal authority or
moral reason to invade Iraq from the git go and should answer to an
international tribunal. Credibility is measured solely by
accountability. When a trust is reposed in someone and he betrays it
from the start there has to be some check or balance available other
than waiting years for the next rigged election to roll around.........


Cardona's dog-handling colleague, Sgt. Michael Smith,
was convicted in March and sentenced to 179 days in jail. No
soldier above the rank of staff sergeant has been convicted
of abuse at the prison but Lt. Col. Steven Jordan, who
headed the interrogation center, is scheduled to become the
first officer to face a court-martial on abuse charges.

Of the other 10 people convicted of Abu Ghraib-related
abuse, one received a 10-year sentence and another eight
years. None of the others received more than three years.
************************************************************

How long have those people been held at Gitmo now? No formal charges,
no attorneys, no trials (or even color of trials), sleep depravation,
water boarding etc. I pity the foolish kids that get suckered into
the military thinking they're going to come out in 2 -4 years as rich
college students, and instead get stop-loss'd to grunt in body armor in
140° heat.

Know justice know Peace. No justice no Peace.


I'm going to try and stop calling them murderers and try to
see it differently. I'll let you know what I find out.

Oh, there ARE murderers over there, no doubt. It's just that, "Some
soldiers are not murderers." is the more accurate statement.

Peace,
Sanity


Thunder

.

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