Re: Defending SR (Was: All quit trashing BODI)


spiritrising wrote:
> how about almost every word you use, it just isn't in the language. the
> interpatations are of the single interpeter, not the sayer of those words.
> spiritrising


is there a Bull*** Dance Ritual that you participate in or what? you
and i are using the english language to communicate here so of course
its about every word i'm using if the criteria for validy is to be
speaking an indian dialec. and who are these "sayers" you refer to and
is there some reason why the interpretations and the translations of a
"breed" are less valid or less accurate than what a "true indian" might
interpret or translate if said "true indian" were inclined to share the
wisdoms of his People with others not thus endowed with the knowledge
of his particular tribe's language? matters not. your sophistry is
not only an attempt at manipulation but a lame attempt at that.
and well ... since we're using the english language and there are words
to describe people who consider other people "subhuman" and "limited"
due to the their ethnicity, mixed or otherwise, then you fit the
english descriptive word of "bigot". its a shame really. i had
thought that all that racist crap you sling around here was just
juvenile turd stirring but apparently you actually believe in it. not
that it matters to you what some subhuman whitie thinks but i just can
not respect a bigot and that saddens me a bit.
>
> <-ammitusen-@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1127424597.621988.268570@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > spiritrising wrote:
> >> the book by storm has white ways in it, not all in it is indian thinking,
> >> the words are just not there in the language and could never be!
> >
> > "white ways" ... is there even such a thing? provide a few examples
> > of "white ways" that are exclusive to whites. and by what you're saying
> > there can be no books translated from one language to another, ever b/c
> > there might be words that don't quite jive in cultural context.
> >
> > you are
> >> still relating white ways to a culture that does not have that thinking
> >> in
> >> it.
> >
> > HA! what choice do i have since i'm a whitie and apparently "true
> > indians" do not pass along "true indian thinking" on to subhuman
> > whities.
> >
> >
> > his book would be very invalid in the culture it came from, he changed
> >
> >> certain things using HIS opinion of how he interpted it. it lost the in
> >> depth knowledge when he did that.
> >
> >
> > its a compilation of myths and stories from different Native American
> > tribes. i read no "opinion" in it.
> >
> > and he is making a buck off it too!
> >
> > and so? so H. Storm shouldnt make money for the work he did? if thats
> > the case then when i purchase and read books concerning the myths and
> > legends of other cultures i shoulda got those books for free but since
> > i paid for the books the authors of those books are somehow lacking in
> > ethics. or maybe books on myths and legends of other cultures shouldnt
> > be written at all. right?
> >
> >
> > no
> >> indian would sell his soul for a buck and that is what storm did.
> >
> > in your opinion. i guess those indians making living for themselves
> > and their tribe off of gambling casinos or selling tradition crafts at
> > pow wows are also selling their souls. right? i'm curious. where
> > does your money come from?
> >
> > and
> >> further more indians would never share the in depth things they hold
> >> sacred,
> >> the only way they get out is if they are stolen, and then used to make a
> >> profit.
> >
> > or maybe some indians want the Native cultures to be shared and
> > appreciated by everyOne regardless of skin color.
> >
> > if ya can't see that is happening, then your own history is so
> >> untrue about tribal ways of your own ancestors, christians and others
> >> wanting power over others, it is a big thing in this world.
> >
> > um ... i havent a clue what the tribal ways of my ancestors might have
> > been. GONE GONE GONE ... remember?
> >
> > in indian ways there is no power over anyone, and no one desires it.
> >
> > yeah right and indian tribes never fought amongst themselves or treated
> > their women like chattel. give me a break.
> >
> > i got stuck doing what
> >> i do, its not something i want, but a duty to my tribe, no one can be
> >> picked
> >> for it, no one votes for it, its tribal! a little climpse into tribes
> >> is
> >> you see a council on the outside dealing with whites, then you don't see
> >> the
> >> council on the inside dealing with tribe, two different worlds. power
> >> mongers picked by the US to be on council versus tribal people.
> >> spiritrising
> >
> > i wouldnt know. i'm a subhuman whitie so i am not privy to such things
> > as you repeatedly point out and yet seem to hold me responsible for my
> > ignorance on the matter. does a "true indian" such as yourself know
> > what a "catch 22" is?
> >>
> >> <-ammitusen-@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:1127402176.365306.321890@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >
> >> > Carla wrote:
> >> >> Hey, thistle,
> >> >>
> >> >> Never thought I would be speaking up in defense of SR, but I do feel
> >> >> the
> >> >> need
> >> >> here. I think the two of you are talking apples and oranges. Cultural
> >> >> and
> >> >> linguistic differences are very real, as are the phenomena of cultural
> >> >> theft and
> >> >> what is now becoming known in the social sciences as transgenerational
> >> >> trauma.
> >> >> Seems to me SR could easily, in this case, not be coming from a place
> >> >> of
> >> >> prejudice, but of linguistic and cultural difference. While the word
> >> >> "breed" is
> >> >> known to be un PC to whites, it may not be considered that way at all
> >> >> among
> >> >> Indians. I'll have to take SR's word on this. It is very true that up
> >> >> to
> >> >> now he
> >> >> has been very gamey and deliberately provocative, often speaking
> >> >> deliberate
> >> >> untruths to f*ck with folks' heads. I get the sense that this is not
> >> >> what
> >> >> is
> >> >> happening here, however. Seems to me he is making a real attempt to
> >> >> explain and
> >> >> educate, and this time it is -our- attitudes that are standing in the
> >> >> way.
> >> >>
> >> >> There have been discussions here in the past about cultural theft that
> >> >> have been
> >> >> very meaty, and I have no doubt you remember some of them. SR's
> >> >> objections to
> >> >> cultural theft and cultural dilution are well-founded, in my opinion.
> >> >>
> >> >> Transgenerational trauma is also beginning to be recognized as a
> >> >> significant
> >> >> influence that disrupts the well-being of many (though certainly not
> >> >> all)
> >> >> people
> >> >> of Jewish, African-American, and Indian heritage in this country, as
> >> >> well
> >> >> as
> >> >> survivors of childhood abuse. I think it was Ayin who asked why the
> >> >> experience of
> >> >> racism or adverse circumstances affect people of color differently
> >> >> than
> >> >> it does
> >> >> whites. It took me a long time to accept that it does, but there is no
> >> >> doubt in
> >> >> my mind now that it is fact. What convinced me were the many hours of
> >> >> research
> >> >> and reading I did in graduate school, and the very eloquent articles
> >> >> written by
> >> >> people who have been affected by it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Daily exposure to hatred based on nothing more than skin color or
> >> >> ethnicity has
> >> >> got to erode trust, faith, hope, self-confidence, and self-efficacy.
> >> >> There is no
> >> >> possible way whites can comprehend what it is like to be mistreated
> >> >> just
> >> >> for
> >> >> being who they are. You mulitply that by several generations of grief,
> >> >> hypervigilance, trauma, and injustice, and what you get are
> >> >> significant
> >> >> disruptions in healthy parenting, as well as significant negative
> >> >> impacts
> >> >> on
> >> >> transmissions of family, community and cultural values (and I don't
> >> >> mean
> >> >> family
> >> >> values in the sense that W. means them).
> >> >>
> >> >> Too short a time this early in the morning to expound further. I would
> >> >> simply
> >> >> invite you and Ayin to look at things from different perspective.
> >> >>
> >> >> Luv'n U.
> >> >
> >> > okay Carla while all that is true this argument started when spirit
> >> > said that "true indians" consider white people to be subhuman and those
> >> > indians who dont not have this view are "whitiefied" or
> >> > "christianized". i'm not sure i can accept that generalization as
> >> > fact. and although he says that indians do not consider "breeds" to be
> >> > a slur he, none the less, implied that the book i mentioned by H Storm
> >> > was somehow invalid b/c it was compiled by a "breed" which seems to
> >> > indicate predjudice to me. and the idea that b/c a culture has no word
> >> > that defines "bigot" or "predjudice" doesnt mean that people in that
> >> > culture can't have those attitudes. "blood" or skin color does not
> >> > inherently limit a person ... the attitude of the society does.
> >> >
> >> > PS. in my opinion the only difference between the pain felt by people
> >> > of color who have more recently lost their tribal identity and the pain
> >> > felt by whities who have no tribal identity at all is the length of
> >> > time between the culture genocide and the impact on individuals such as
> >> > myself. the christian god killed off my tribe too but i guess i'm that
> >> > doesnt count for much since i'm the same ethincity as the big white
> >> > daddy so i do not encounter institutional racism (tho i certainly
> >> > encounter other types of predjudice). if i had a tribe and that tribe
> >> > had tribal lands i wouldnt be sitting on indian lands. i'd have a
> >> > People and an ancestral home. oh well, history is what it is ...
> >> > nothing i can do to change that.
> >> >>
> >> >> michael_thistle@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > spirit wrote:
> >> >> > > but i ain't out there trying to change others to my beleifs, i
> >> >> > > just
> >> >> > > want
> >> >> > > them to stay the same with out the newage white thinking put into
> >> >> > > it,
> >> >> > > it
> >> >> > > worked for thousands of years before the whites came, and can
> >> >> > > work
> >> >> > > for many
> >> >> > > years more. and your wrong, people who are of the breed know their
> >> >> > > limits,
> >> >> > > some go out and try to push their thinking and changeing the ways
> >> >> > > of
> >> >> > > old to
> >> >> > > make a buck. but it is not evident in tribes that people are
> >> >> > > demeanered in
> >> >> > > any way, and would never harm those who are different, again thats
> >> >> > > the
> >> >> > > whites way,so please do, go, makes me think better with out your
> >> >> > > white
> >> >> > > prejudice thoughts.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > sigh, I find I cannot let this stand without comment. The sad
> >> >> > reality
> >> >> > is we are all human, white, red, black, yellow, brown. In group, out
> >> >> > group, perhaps is coded in our genes, evolutionary leftovers from
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > struggle to survive. No color is without some who harbor anomosity
> >> >> > towards another color and those of mixed blood often get the worse
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > it. Not accepted by the color group of either parent. Indians are no
> >> >> > more free of racism than blacks or whites. Mixed blood indians are
> >> >> > harmed by the racism of whites against their indian blood and the
> >> >> > racism of indians against their white blood. There are so many
> >> >> > reason I
> >> >> > know this to be true but one will suffice. I have mixed blood
> >> >> > friends
> >> >> > and they told me of their experiences. If no "breed" has ever told
> >> >> > you,
> >> >> > SR, I can only wonder why.
> >> >
> >

.

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