Re: Wal Mart Kills Suspected Shoplifter in Parking Lot


-ammitusen-@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Shava_X wrote:
> > On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:41:56 -0700, -ammitusen- wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Shava_X wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 17:31:39 -0700, -ammitusen- wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > Shava_X wrote:
> > >> >> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 10:50:05 -0700, -ammitusen- wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Shava_X wrote:
> > >> >> >> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:51:28 -0700, michael_thistle wrote:
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > That Guy wrote:
> > >> >> >> >> "swan" <thirdwaveswan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > >> >> >> >> news:1124626774.699291.31350@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> >> >> >> > BOYCOTT WALMART NOW!!!
> > >> >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >> > I just read this in houston indymedia - how much farther does this have
> > >> >> >> >> > to go before we ALL get fed up - check it out:
> > >> >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >> > [http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15014453] (URL:
> > >> >> >> >> > http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3303871)
> > >> >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >> > http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20050819185544407
> > >> >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >> I don't necessarily agree with the assertion that shoplifters who fight
> > >> >> >> >> should be let go and the case turned over to police. If that's the case,
> > >> >> >> >> any shoplifter can get away by fighting, by the time the cops get there,
> > >> >> >> >> they'll be long gone.
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >> Do I think it's ok to kill someone for shoplifting? No, not deliberately.
> > >> >> >> >> If they are fighting or trying to get away and you break their arm, maybe,
> > >> >> >> >> in the struggle to get them and hold them until the cops get there, I could
> > >> >> >> >> see that.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > The problem is violence is a high that some people find hard to
> > >> >> >> > control. The body is flooded with adreneline and other homones. The
> > >> >> >> > breathing slows and deepens and becomes like a pranayama. Even after
> > >> >> >> > the "thief" stops struggleing those subdueing him don't want to let go
> > >> >> >> > of the high. There's also the psychological feeling of power that comes
> > >> >> >> > from controling another person. Did you read the article? It apparently
> > >> >> >> > would have been easy to hand cuff him to a post or car door but they
> > >> >> >> > held him down on the hot pavement long after he had been overpowered
> > >> >> >> > and subdued. Was it deliberate? I guess not they were lost in an
> > >> >> >> > physical and psychological high they couldn't control. But is that a
> > >> >> >> > valid excuse, I think not. Watch the Rodney King video and you'll see
> > >> >> >> > this in its extreem form though its not so uncommon. Just uncommon to
> > >> >> >> > see it on a video. 3 cops with batons totally buzzed out of there minds
> > >> >> >> > on adreneline beating the crap out of this almost totally distroyed guy
> > >> >> >> > for almost 2 minutes when he barely had the strength to lift himself 2
> > >> >> >> > inches off the ground.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > ...
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> i think the question is did You fully read the article?
> > >> >> >> The Houston Chronicle explicitly states that He was never "subdued", that
> > >> >> >> is, He did not stop resisting until he stopped breathing :
> > >> >> >> "he continued to struggle until he stopped breathing, witnesses said."
> > >> >> >> Even in handcuffs, if a person continues to struggle, they could potential
> > >> >> >> break free.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > how strange that anyOne would defend the act of killing someone over a
> > >> >> > stolen box of pampers or defend the brutal treatment of Rodney King.
> > >> >> > people in positions of power and authority need to be held to higher
> > >> >> > account than the perpetrator. cops are going hogwild with their
> > >> >> > tazers. they're tazing on the least provocation ... even people
> > >> >> > strapped down to gurnies and little kids having temper tantrums. and
> > >> >> > theyre killing people with their tazors too and little is being done to
> > >> >> > institute controls on the cops. cops kill people and get away with it
> > >> >> > all the time ... the victims of police violence are often innocent of
> > >> >> > crime, killed for mistaken identity. tazings, beatings or the use of
> > >> >> > deadly force should NEVER be employed unless the cops or the folks
> > >> >> > around are in danger of injury or death. maybe if the cops werent so
> > >> >> > damned out of shaped they'd have the physical ability to subdue
> > >> >> > perpetrators without the use of instruments of torture. sit on ass
> > >> >> > most of the day in a squad car eating donuts its no wonder cops are
> > >> >> > out of shape and too lazy to do expend the energy to arrest alledged
> > >> >> > criminals by using their own strength.. lots easier just to taze
> > >> >> > someone and a lot less scary too.
> > >> >> > in anycase ... stealing a box of pampers just aint injury enuff to
> > >> >> > justify killing a man. the pamper thief should be (would have been)
> > >> >> > held acountable for the theft of a box of pampers which i dont thionk
> > >> >> > is a death penalty offense. the security guards should be held
> > >> >> > accountable for manslaughter, at the very least. and walmart should be
> > >> >> > sued for big big bucks.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > PS. when you start making excuses and justifications for police
> > >> >> > brutality youre sliding down one of the most slippery of slopes.
> > >> >> > consider thats the cops dont just carry guns and batons anymore. they
> > >> >> > have all kinds of fancy new weapons for crowd control and if the public
> > >> >> > justifies the use of such then we be fascists.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> So You aren't actually reading any of this are You?
> > >> >> i did not defend what happened, nor have i ever defended what happened to
> > >> >> Rodney King. In addition, the article implies that Cops were not
> > >> >> involved. It was the Wal Mart employs that kept the man pinned to the
> > >> >> ground, not cops. It was the Wal Mart employs that are responsible
> > >> >> (morally, even if not legally) for the man's death.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > gee ... did i direct my post specificly at you? hmmmm i don't think
> > >> > so.
> > >> > and since we're talkin about the use of excessive force by
> > >> > irresponsible authority i dont think its so big a stretch to include
> > >> > police brutality in the discussion.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> It was a direct to reply to my post. So, in effect, You did.
> > >
> > > okay. i can see where you got that impression. sorry about that. i
> > > was just jumping in "wherever".
> > >>
> > >> Now You are elevating Wal mart employees to authority Figures? Comparing
> > >> Cops to people working at Wal Mart borders on comparing oranges and
> > >> bricks. Cops are actually trained in the use of force (the quality and
> > >> appropriateness of that training is often questionable), Wal Mart
> > >> Employees are trained to put things on shelves. Cops are actually paid
> > >> enough to live on (usually). Wal Mart may pay all of its employees more
> > >> than the legally mandated minimum, but most only make slightly more than
> > >> minimum wage. The difference go on.
> > >
> > > well then ... security guards like those employed by Walmart shouldnt
> > > be allowed, by law, to lay a hand on another human being if they are
> > > not adequately trained. however poorly trained they are, the fact
> > > remains that they are empowered to tackle and subdue people. this
> > > empowerment puts them in a simular catagory as cops. how much they are
> > > paid is irrevevent. they are empowered to take control of another
> > > person's life, do bodily harm if they so deem necessary and therefore
> > > they are totally responsible for the outcome of their actions ... they
> > > and their employers.
> >
> >
> > These were not security guards. They were, or least one of them was, Loss
> > Prevention specialists. Several of them may have been regular associates.
>
> i dont see what point you're making. what difference does it makes
> what title Walmart assigns their security guards? they killed a man.
>
>
> > They are no more, and no less, empowered to subdue a person than any other
> > citizen. If they, or You, see a person committing a crime, or at least
> > reasonably believe the person is committing a crime, you can detain that
> > person, if you are able to, until police arrive. It is called a Citizen's
> > Arrest.
>
> well good luck playing hero in such a circumstance. you're REALLY
> screwed if the person youre "citizen arresting" turns out to be
> innocent of any crime. and its possible even if the "suspect" youve
> detained is proven guilty that he or his family may still be able file
> charges against you and to hold you liable in a law suit if you cause
> the "suspect" bodily injury or death.
>
> They will have to show that the measures they took were
> > appropriate, and not excessive. (The article was light on details, but
> > they may have difficulty with that.) If there actions were excessive, and
> > that directly cause the Man's death, they will be legally accountable for
> > it. If their actions are shown to have been excessive,
>
> IF?! IF?! IF their actions are shown to be excessive? they killed a
> man over a stolen box of pampers. seems a tad excessive to me.
>
> and the Wal Mart
> > Stores policies encouraged them to take those actions, Wal Mart itself
> > could become liable. Wal Mart allows its stores to modify many of the
> > corporation's policies if the individual store sees fit. I suspect that
> > the store in question extended what ever corporate policy Wal Mart has on
> > suspect shop-lifters who run when confronted. Most Wal Marts i have been
> > to do not have any one with hand-cuffs to detain people (unless some
> > grabbed a set from the toy section). Nearly every Wal Mart i have been to
> > would never have let the man in the store with out a shirt on, so they are
> > obviously modifying some policies ...
>
>
> a poverty ridden father of a new baby steals a box of pampers from a
> Walmart and ends up dying a torturous death at the hands of Walmart
> employees. i fail to understand how modified store policies mitigate
> that fact. **shrug**

I don't discount the wrongs of the folks that actually held the man
down and Wal-Mart will probably be sued and will probably settle
because of the curcumstances, but to blame the store for an act that
the employees comitted is ludicris (think thats how it's spelled).
Different Wally Words do have veried policies, and types of security.
The Wally World Super Center here has an outside security company
handling there security because of the density of gang bangers here in
town. They are license and bonded, but not all Wally Words have that
kind of security. By all acounts there could have been another way to
subdue the guy. As far as the so called poor father, any town big
enough to have a Wal-Mart usually also has a place to get help on
diapers without having to steal them. I am not trying to justify what
happened to him but get real. I'll bet that the poor father probably
spent the money on crank, crack or beer that most of us would have used
to by the diapers, but that won't come out in the media because it
wouldn't be a sensational tragity story that would sell newspapers.
That same paper will run Wal-Mart adds to make even more money. And who
is going to pay in the long run, The family of the guy who go killed.
Foer the stupidity of the father and the employees of the Wally World.
all that I named are equally at fault.


GraayWolf "The Unforgiven Troll Wannabe"

.

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