Re: About BoP drops.

Christian Stauffer wrote:
>
> "RogerM" <rodger.mckay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Christian Stauffer wrote:
> >>
> >> "RogerM" <rodger.mckay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Under your logic, say a druid and shaman epic BoP item drops. So a
> >> >> druid wins a shaman bop item and sells it for 4 gold. And a shaman
> >> >> wins a druid bop and sells it for 4 gold. Stupid.
> >> >
> >> > A better result than the rogue, warrior, or hunter gets under your
> >> > system.
> >>
> >> Hu?
> >>
> >> Need before greed: The druid gets his epic, the shammie gets his epic,
> >> everyone else gets nothing.
> >> Your method: Someone gets 4g, another one gets 4g, everyone else gets
> >> nothing.
> >>
> >
> > No. In my method (and notice how your preference has implied status as
> > THE way to do it) The druid and shaman have the chance to grab the
> > epics they want, while the others have a chance for a smaller reward.
> > Everyone has a chance at their own maximum possible reward. That is
> > fair.
>
> Yes, in the very small conses of 1 instance run, that is fair. In a
> bigger consens, N/G is fair too. In either way, your method is
> decreasing the overall value of the loot a lot. In fact, your method
> would lead to 3/4 of all BOPs being vendored.
>
> >> In one case, your group as a whole will have 5 nice upgrades. In the
> >> other case your group as a whole will have a few bucks cash, which are
> >> nothing compared to what they could have.
> >> If you are whining (and I hate to use that word, but it really seems
> >> appropriate here)
> >
> > If you mean to be insulting, then don't try to distance yourself from
> > the attack. If you don't mean the insult, then just backspace and delete
> > it before sending.
>
> I don't mean to be insulting. You have a problem where noone else has
> one (which I consider whining), and you try to solve it in a way that's
> absolutely stupid. As hard as I try to put this in more diplomatic words
> because I don't have any hard feelings against you, I can't call it
> otherwise than stupid.
>
> >> that there are instance runs where you or someone
> >> else gets nothing at all, while another person else gets 2 blues as
> >> upgrades, then you should really open your mind a bit and think about
> >> there's a next instance run,
> >
> > With an entirely different group of characters/players, perhaps.
>
> Yes, so... what?
>
> > Theoretical, at best. In any case, I have stated before that the fair
> > way is to allow any players participating in scoring the drop a chance
> > to profit from it. Even though some might profit more than others, that
> > is a random factor. Everyone has a chance at SOME gain.
>
> But the gain OVERALL IN THE END is A LOT smaller with your method of
> basically throwing away items.
>
> >> The question ist if you rather
> >> have 5 blues after 5 instance runs, or 10g.
> >
> > Or nothing at all. It can happen, if one is the wrong class for the
> > instance.
>
> First: There is no instance I'm aware of where I can go in knowing
> beforehand that there's nothing for me, as long as I'm not already
> geared much better than what drops there.
>
> Second: If you get nothing, big deal. Stop looking at 1 instance run.
>
> > I assume you are speaking for L60 instance runs done with guild mates,
> > while I am speaking from a viewpoint of a lower level (my highest is
> > L44) character playing in PUGs.
>
> I'm speaking from the experience of one level 60 char who's done a lot
> of pickup runs, and multiple lower level alts. N/G is a serverwide
> standard (and in the end, most likely WoW-wide), and because of that
> simple fact everyone profits from it in the end.

So when did all the players get together and decide that N/G on BoPs was
the ONE TRUE WAY?

> Because of that fact,

Which isn't a fact.

> your arguments based on looking at 1 instance run are flawed. Because
> of that fact, your argument that you'll most likely not play in the
> same constellation again is meaningless. Because it evens out if N/G
> is used always, which is the case.
>
> > Perhaps, but I am speaking not just for myself, but for the average
> > player in PUGs. I think, if they even thought of it as an option, that
> > they would prefer a chance to profit from their hard work.
>
> ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH *bites the carpet*
>
> Would you call it profit to have 10g after 5 instace runs? I would not.
> Would you call it profit to have 4 blues after 5 instance runs? I would.
>

Would you call it a profit to have nothing after the 5 runs? I would
not.

> Geez, I'll really bite the carpet soon. No shit. ARRRRRRRRRRGH!
>
> Ok... maybe... one last try:
> You go out in the woods with 3 of your buddies to have a BBQ party.
> Out of nowhere, a fairie pops up and tells you because you 4 are
> such nice guys, she'll give you a special gift. A brand new Ferrari
> F40.
> Now there's the question: 4 guys, 1 car. Humm. Your way to solve
> this issue, was to cut the car in 4 pieces, and you guys sell the
> garbage value of the metal. I hope for christs sake you agree that
> this is a very very stupid idea.
> You will tell me now that this ain't the way you'd solve it. You would
> either share the car or sell it for huge money and then split the
> money. The thing is that selling this Ferrari doesn't mean to devalue
> it. But selling a BOP item _IS_ devalueing it a lot. So yes, giving
> a BOP item to someone who will vendor it for 2g when there is someone
> who could use it, is exactly like cutting that Ferrari in 4 pieces.
>

In WoW terms, those 4 guys might well include:
1 guy who is too young to drive, (L 20 on a L25 drop)
1 guy who is too old to drive, (L 40 on a L25 drop)
and 1 guy who is blind and will never be able to drive (a mage on a Mail
item drop)

Still think it's fair to give the car to the one guy who can drive it?
What if (before setting up the trip) he knew the fairy was likely to
show up and make the offer? What if the campers are strangers, and will
likely never see each other again (PUG)? It's not like Mr Lucky will be
driving them around in his new car.

As you suggested, I would sell the car and split the cash. That's fair.

You think Karma is a real force and the Fairies are keeping track, just
waiting to favour one of the other fellows the next time they meet up.
What if those fairies ONLY give away cars?

The universe isn't keeping score, and the chances of winning a loot roll
are not affected by the last roll (or the last thousand).

> > People being the way they are, it is difficult to fight against the
> > "it's always been this way" attitude.
>
> You are not fighting against my "it's always been this way" attitude,
> you are fighting against my "this is one of the most stupid ideas I've
> ever heard" attitude.
>

You earlier admitted that my suggestion was fair. That hardly matches up
with "one of the most stupid ideas I've
ever heard".
.

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