Re: OT: PSN may start featuring $40 game downloads

On Feb 24, 4:41 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The alMIGHTY N <natle...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

What a horrible idea.

I don't think it's a horrible idea. I do think that the likely
implementation will result in a relatively pointless piece of
functionality that will not result in the kind of revenue Sony is
hoping for.

LOL.  But does that make it a good idea?

I didn't say that it was a good idea. I said it was not a horrible
idea.

Look at all the resources Sony
has sunk into Home.  Imagine if they'd used those resources fixing the PS2
emulation software for the PS3, or creating better graphics libraries for
developers?

What does one have to do with the other?

At least with Steam, there is an option to burn the games you buy to CD or
DVD I believe.  But the PS3 has no such hardware.  And at least with
Steam, all you need is a PC with enough hardware to run the game.  If you
buy a new PC, for instance, you simply install Steam on it, log in, and
redownload your games.  No problem.  So, what happens when the PS4 rolls
out in 2012 or so, what becomes of these games you bought on the PS3?  Can
you transfer or redownload them on the PS4? (assuming you use the same
account, and the PS4 is PS3 compatible of course!)

Is there a limit to the number of times you can redownload your
purchase from a different machine? I have to assume that there is to
prevent people from sharing their account credentials for the purpose
of piracy.

I don't think Steam limits the number of times you can redownload.  
However you can only have one active login at a time, so even if you put
your account onto multiple machines, only one of them could be used at any
one time.

So if you had one person living in New York and one person living in
California, the person in California would be able to use the same
account after the person in New York has gone to bed? LOL

As far as I can tell, Microsoft does not impose a limit on redownloads
but I guess that's the advantage to having such a closed and
restricted system.

With Microsoft, the download is locked to the account that downloaded, and
the primary console.  If you replace your hard drive, or get a new 360,
you can tell Microsoft you've changed your primary console, so the
downloads will be available to any user on that console.  Otherwise, only
the account that downloaded the content can use it if and only if they're
logged into Live.

If downloads are "available to any user on that console," then they
are not locked to the account but to the console, contrary to your
first sentence in the paragraph.

I'm quite certain that the downloads are locked to the account. I have
3 profiles on my console but only my main profile can utilize
downloaded content. Whether I have to be logged into Live only depends
on which of my two consoles I'm using. If my hard drive is attached to
my original repaired unit, I can use the content whether I'm logged on
or not. If my hard drive is attached to my new unit, I can use the
content only when I'm logged on. In neither case can my secondary
profiles use the content.

In any case, that doesn't speak to whether there is an ultimate limit
to the number of times you can download a specific piece of paid
content.

The discounted price has to be lower than $40.  For $40 or less, I can buy
most PS3 titles from Gamestop used - AND - I'll get a disc, case and
documentation.  If Sony is serious about this, the price better be $30
initially, then drop to $20 or even $15 once the title becomes a Greatest
Hit.

This didn't stop Microsoft from offering Xbox Originals. They're not
smash hits but people *are* buying them.

At the same time, however, Xbox Original games aren't for sale in most
stores anymore, and at $10 a title, they're competitively priced with most
used titles you'll find at Gamestop.

You were speaking about buying used games. Most Xbox Original games
are available for purchase used in GameStop stores.

As far as being able to buy used games for $40 or less from GameStop,
that's true only for the older releases or the less popular releases.
Call of Duty 4 still goes for $44 and new releases go for $50-55 used.
The savings is generally only $5-10 for the first year or so.

Not so, if you use Gamestop's coupons and Edge Card.

You're grasping at straws now. Under that mindset, you should be
praising the Playstation 3 for being as cheap as a Wii and cheaper
than a Premium 360 since if you sign up for a Sony card, which you
don't even have to pay for like the Edge Card, you can get one for
$250.

While you won't be
able to get a recently released game (e.g. Street Fighter 4) used on
release day, or even for a few weeks or months after release, it's quite
easy to save between 30-50% on a used game compared to the game's current
new price.

Way down the line, sure. You won't be getting 50% off a used copy of
any game within the first half-year or so, though, so this doesn't
help people who want to play the game *now.*

Your argument is based off the assumption that any given person is
willing to wait a half-year to a year to save this kind of money.

Further, the disc, case and documentation you get with most used games
isn't exactly in the greatest of shape, and in fact most used games
don't even come with a manual or even an "official" case. Plus, those
ugly "USED" stickers are plastered all over everything.

I haven't had a problem finding original game cases with documentation in
near-mint or very-good condition.

If you go through every used game in all the GameStop, EBGames and
Software Etc. stores in your area, I guarantee you that the
overwhelming majority of them will not be in even very good condition
and many will not have manuals or even the cover inserts.

Perhaps you've been lucky (I'm just picky) but don't for once assume
that what you've experienced is the norm.

Yes, you have the yellow "USED"
stickers to contend with, but big deal.  They're no worse than those
annoying "SECURITY DEVICE ENCLOSED" stickers they use on new games.

ROTFLMAO

Are you talking about the ones that cover the bottom edge of the case
that come off with absolutely no problem and generally no residue on
the case? In all my years of gaming, I have never once had a problem
with these on any console where they've been used. I just rip them off
without even being careful about it and everything's perfectly fine.

Music CDs are a different story...

More people care than not about having something "physical" to
represent your purchase but those that do are likely going to care
that their "physical" possession be in a good shape and look
relatively new. If anything, people who really care about having
something physical instead of just an amorphous download are going to
go to eBay where it's not going to be obvious that what you bought
passed through someone else's hands.

There's a huge market on eBay for "just the disc" or "just the
cartridge." When you get down to the people who look at those cheap
auctions, do you really think the lack of a physical medium is going
to make *THAT* much of a difference?

You forget, if I have a physical copy of a game, I can play that game so
long as I have a working console.  I don't need a connection to the
internet.  I don't even need to be using the same console - I can take the
game to my friend's house and play there.

a) That's why you'll be paying less for it.
b) How many people these days take games over to their friends' house
to play?

With a digital copy, it's pretty much stuck on that console, and may not
even work if Sony is stupid and requires me to be logged into PSN for it
to work.

Who knows how it's going to work? Maybe they'll institute some sort of
method similar to Xbox Live where the download is tied to the console.
You don't know so to badmouth a concept that hasn't yet been realized
or elaborated based on your speculation is somewhat ridiculous.

As for "just the disc/cart" folks, sure, if I was looking for an old or
rare game, and I only cared about being able to play the game, that would
be fine.  However, in Gamestop's case, you don't get any discount for a
game that's lacking its original case and/or documentation.  If the game
costs, say, $35 used, ALL copies - regardless of their condition - are $35.

Who said anything about GameStop? Reread that paragraph.

This is why I check the condition of the case, manual and the disc before
purchasing.  I might as well get the best copy for my cash, right?  
(personally, I wish Gamestop WOULD give you an additional discount for
games that don't have their right case or docs...)

GameStop should price differently depending on how complete the trade-
in is. However, then people would demand different pricing based on
the grade of the whole package. Then you get the issue of subjective
grading since you can't realistically expect some $10-an-hour clerk to
become an expert on what's very good and what's near mint.

It's not that I think that digital downloads is the wave of the future
but that the existence of the GameStop retail used market is hardly a
substantial barrier to the success of this endeavor.

The problem is the pricing isn't consumer friendly.  Sony is basically
telling me if a game is selling for $60 new, in the store, I can download
it for $40....or I can go to eBay or Gamestop and buy a used physical copy
for less than that.  Where's the benefit here?  I'm paying more for a copy
that has more restrictions than a used copy that's available for less.

No, a market analyst is claiming that Sony is launching a service that
offers downloads of full games for $20 off the price of the physical
retail copy with concurrent availability.

It's simple - Sony is offering this as an option for people who are
willing to give up the physical copy and the benefits that go with it
for a digital download that is $20 less than the MSRP.

That you and the relatively few people who have the same purchasing
mindset as you are not going to benefit from this alternative does not
mean that it is a horrible idea. There are plenty of people who will
benefit from it and the existence of such an option is not going to
affect anyone who isn't interested in any way, negative or not, so
what's the problem?

The article mentions this has also been done with PSP software, but as I
understand that works is that you can transfer the file to the memory card
for your PSP - meaning you should also be able to legitimately make a backup
copy.  Right now, there is no supported way to do the same thing with your
PS3 hard drive.

You have to transfer the file to the memory card. There's no on-board
storage for downloads.

True.  But your PC can read the memory card, and therefore, copy the
game file.  So you at least have a way of making a backup.

With the current abilities of the PS3, and what little information has
been released about this plan, there doesn't seem to be a way to backup
your game purchases.  Sure, you can redownload the game...but maybe only a
few times(?)  And what happens if my PS3 dies and Sony no longer has these
games for sale online?  I haven't bought a game, then, I've just "rented"
it.

The likelihood that they'll just kill the availability of a download
is slim to none. What paid download on Xbox Live have you seen
disappear? The only piece of content I have that cannot be
redownloaded is the free HD South Park episode since HD DVD is gone
(and it was meant to celebrate the format).

Will downloaded games still need to "install" themselves?  Like say I
download DMC, will it still want tocopy about 5GB of files over to another
part of my hard drive?  Will this cause the game to run even slower, as
Halo3 does if you copy it to the 360's hard drive?  And what of the hard
drive itself?  80GB won't even be large enough for 4 downloaded games.

By this logic, the NXE feature of installing games is useless since
the overwhelming majority of 360 owners either have no hard drive or
just the 20GB hard drive, which realistically could only store 1-2
games.

But installing on the 360 isn't a requirement.

That's irrelevant. Your logic states that because most people won't
benefit from this service, the entire concept is bad. By that logic,
the installation feature is bad because most people won't benefit from
it. In other words, the percentage that will benefit shouldn't be
offered the service simply because nobody else can use it, never mind
that those who can't use it aren't harmed in any way by its existence.

In fact, it can hurt the
performance of the game (Halo3).

One game out of hundreds? Are you really going to try to use that as a
supporting argument? Come on now.

On the PS3, howver, many games require
a chunk of diskspace for installation.

Who cares? That's not the point. Stop trying to deflect.

The more I think about this, the more horrible it becomes.  Did anyone at
Sony actually spend more than 5 minutes thinking through the user
experience here, because it seems to me, the only one benefitting here is
Sony's revenues.

You're trying way too hard to find fault with this. It may not be an
optimal service and it may not be for everyone but if anything, the
least benefit is to Sony and the publishers who aren't going to see
the success they're expecting for reasons that have nothing to do with
those you listed above.

Trying too hard?  Hardly. (heh)

The concept of digital downloads has been kicked around for the PC for
years, and had to deal with all of the issues (and more, I'm sure) that I
listed.

Actually, PC games have never had to deal with your key issue, which
is the used games market at GameStop. GameStop doesn't sell used PC
games and probably never will.

Your biggest point of contention revolves around that. Steam is
relatively successful. This can be mildly successful because there are
always going to be people interested.

If Sony is really serious about this, I really hope they take a careful
look at those services that are doing this - and are successful at doing
it - rather than simply plowing ahead and recreating every mistake that's
been made over the past 10 years.

Mistakes that haven't prevented the services from being relatively
successful.

Price and backup/redownloading are the two biggest issues I see here.

Steam's pricing structure isn't an impediment to the multitude of
people who use it. Apparently, redownloading hasn't been a problem,
either.
.

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