Re: What New Feature Would You Like To See In The Next Console?

On Feb 13, 4:12 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 13, 12:47 pm, "Morgan" <Nos...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The alMIGHTY N wrote:
Ultra high resolution textures is nice, but considering most people
still don't even have HDTVs, it's rather targeted. HDTVs won't have
50% market share by the next generation and even then only a small
percentage of HDTVs in homes will be 1080p. The benefit of ultra high
resolution textures quickly diminishes when you drop to 720p and
especially when you drop to 480p.

Do we actually have a time frame for the next gen consoles?

I'd expect the next Xbox system to hit in November 2010, maybe 2011 if
they stretch it a bit.

I've seen a few
posts in here about Sony saying that they expect the PS3s life span to be in
excess of 10 years which, assuming they don't intend to release their next
gen consol until then makes it a very long way in the future in terms of
technology.  Personally I'm not sure that the 10+ year time scale is true.

Sony has been saying that all along but they never tied that to the
release of a new console. The PS2's lifespan is still increasing as we
type. I'd be surprised if the PS2 didn't make it to 10 years.

Sure, but the fact that you're participating in these newsgroups
indicates that you're likely a lot more technologically inclined than
most people. The average consumer doesn't care about Blu-Ray - the
reason why is arguable - and probably still won't even in the next few
years. There's a much greater chance that Blu-Ray will remain niche
than go mainstream - there's just not enough value proposition for the
average person.

True, thought I still believe that blu-ray will catch on eventually.

Before the economic crisis hit, I expected that if Blu-Ray did catch
on, it wouldn't happen until 2011-2012. Now, I simply have much less
faith that the technology will go mainstream - if it does, it won't be
until much later, years down the road.

There is no reason for the average consumer to buy Blu-Ray.

Cheaper BR players  have dropped to below the £180 mark now and although
that not even close to as cheap as DVD the prices are only going to come
down.

While the prices of DVDs also continue to drop. Before the economic
crisis, I said Blu-Ray needed to be at the same price point as DVD is
right now in order to hit the mainstream. With people's savings
crushed and their jobs gone, I'd say it will take even more of a price
drop (Blu-Rays at about $12-15 MSRP).

The medium is finally getting an extensive library of older films
(thought I do wish they release Gladiator) and is getting industry support
from the film companies.

Which says nothing to whether consumers will buy. Older films tend not
to look nearly as good as the contemporary films so that hurts the
whole "Blu-Ray looks a gazillion times better" shpiel.





I'd love for Blu-Ray to succeed but I just don't see it happening.
There's too much, especially as far as human nature is concerned,
working against it.

Also, at least in the UK blu-ray films seem to be finally falling in
price, you can pick up older releases for £9.99 from supermarkets
now.

9.99 GBP is quite high in USD.

Relatively speaking we generally pay more for DVDs CD, hardware, cream
cakes.  Pretty much every thing to be honest. :-) Though in my book £9.99
puts them into the impulse buy category if you pass a film you wouldn't mind
in the shop. It's still double the price of the dirt cheap DVDs but a good
£5 cheaper than you'd find six months ago.

It's better than the prices we're
seeing here in most retailers but it's still not at that mass market
level. Plus, "older releases" at least here tends to mean "movies that
even the hardcore early adopters don't want." LOL

You can't even find Blu-Rays in supermarkets here.

You still can't in most here.

Trust me, it's
simply not widespread enough in the United States to take hold anytime
soon.
I agree that they look better on the 360 but the next gen games will
have higher res textures, more complex meshes, better quality sound
and hopefully be bigger games.  Think of a game the size of Thief 2
but with modern graphics.

One would hope for these things but I don't think the reality
necessarily matches up. I don't think the majority of developers are
going to go much higher as far as resolution of textures. The extra
cost isn't justified by the apparent benefit to the common end user.
It's cheaper to just provide for the lowest common denominator.

The cost shouldn't really be an issue, it shouldn't cost any more to create
a high res texture than one half the resolution.  Te graphical improvement
can be very noticeable.  There have been a few PC/console games where the PC
versions have been modded to include higher res textures.

In those cases, the developers designed the textures at a higher
resolution for the intent of using it them in a PC version where the
graphics capabilities were likely to be higher and then downgraded
them for use on the consoles. Creating the texture at a higher
resolution in the first place is most certainly a higher cost effort
than aiming for lower resolutions. If you have to account for much
higher detail, you have to work that much harder to include that much
more detail.

Oblivion and Thief
3 are the two that spring to mind. The next gen consoles will obviously have
a lot more horse power and game companies will want to use that power.

The next generation consoles are still going to output to 1080p max
which means that there's only so high up you can go with the
resolution. That's why I said not to expect higher resolution textures
- if the console can only output to 1920 x 1080, it won't matter if
you include a texture that is 2880 x 1620 since it's going to be
downgraded to 1920 x 1080 anyway.

Think about it -- how many people who aren't downloading pirated
movies or games do you know would even fill up 50GB of data? Okay, now
think about how many of those people would need to fill up 50GB discs
multiple times (as in enough times where you could justify dropping
that kind of cash on the drive itself and then paying $10+ for each
disc)?

Yeh but that's as a home storage medium, I was thinking more as a game
distribution medium.

These transitions occurred when there was a need for a transition. By
the time CD-ROMs took over as the standard format for games, games
were coming on *many* floppies. There was a need for a new media
format that could store all that on one unit.

By the time DVD-ROMs took over as the standard format for games, games
were coming on *many* CD-ROMs. There was a need.

Games right now are *not* coming on many DVD-ROMs, however. There is
no need at all for a transition to BD-ROM because 99% of the time you
can do with just one DVD+9 and even when there are multiple discs,
it's 2 or 3 discs total and not 5 or 6 discs (where you start to
approach the total capacity of a single BD-ROM).

No, you can forget about BD-ROM.

I see your points but I necessarily agree with all of them.

I'm glad you see things my way. ;-)

I'll bet you a
pint the next gen consoles have blu-ray drives. :-)

Okay, but it only counts if *all three* consoles have Blu-Ray drives
and not just the Playstation 4, LOL.

Thought I do wonder
how Sony would be about allowing MS to use the technology (assuming they'd
have any legal power to stop them if they went through a third party.)

Sony would have no power to stop them nor would they want to. If
Microsoft was crazy enough to want to use Blu-Ray as the storage
format for their next console, this only helps Sony as that would make
Blu-Ray the standard for consoles.

If developers got used to developing for that capacity on consoles,
you could be sure that this would translate over to PC gaming, which
would be another win for Sony.

I simply don't think Microsoft will have any inclination to go that
route. First off, it helps Sony. Secondly, there isn't going to be any
benefit. Xbox games were already coming on DVD-9... they just became
the standard for the 360. Storage requirements really haven't blown up
all that much from last generation to this.

The only way Microsoft could justify such a move was if developers
were, by the time they got well into the development of the console,
putting out games that came on 3+ DVD-9s more often than not. That's
not going to happen anytime soon. Hell, even a game with the sizeable
content of Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Oblivion, etc. doesn't need 3
DVD-9s.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why even bother with a new gen console. Same texture sizes as today,
same sound quality as today, same physical media as today. By your
account the "average gamer" has a SD tube TV playing sound out of a
mono speaker. If the "average gamer" can't even use current gen
technology to its fullest, no wait 4 year old technology, why
repackage and try to sell something new for another $400, 2 - 3 years
from now. Keep in mind the life of a console. It has to live at
least five years after its release. Go out and try to buy a TV that
isn't HD today. 720P HD LCDs is all you can buy at Sams Club and
Walmart (where all the average gamers shop). All you want out of the
next gen is a larger hard drive? For what? There's nothing stoping
MS from releasing a larger HD for the 360 today, other than the fact
that nobody would buy it. I've had an Elite for over a year,
downloaded most of the major demos, have 5 games ripped, and a handful
of XBLA games and never deleted anything on it and its only half
full.

Go track the size of games and their sequels over time. Halo 2: 2.8
GB, Halo 3: 6.2 GB, Morrowind: 1 GB, Oblivion: 2 GB, FO3: 6 GB (yes I
know FO3 isn't the sequel to Oblivion, but you can bet its a demo for
TES5), PG1: 2.3 GB, PG2: 4.3 GB, PG3: 6.7 GB, PG4: 7.2 GB, COD3: 2.9
GB, COD4: 2 GB, COD5: 6.4 GB.

And you're saying for the next 7 years games aren't going to grow more
than 2 gigs? You may be right, but if you are, i'm done with gaming.
It will no longer be cutting and leading edge technology, innovation
and ingenuity will be vacant, and it will be just another appliance
like a refrigerator, stove, or vacuum cleaner frozen in time and
defined by near sighted and complacent consumers lulled into
mediocrity by corporations that will reap billions by rehashing decade
old technology.
.

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