Re: Leaving the Dursleys.


"Here in Minnesota!" <neverwillicheckthis@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Thom Madura" <tommadura@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Here in Minnesota!" <neverwillicheckthis@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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You're still confusing the 3 major types of protections involved. They
are
not "essentially the same" except they all offer protections.

1. The protection Harry received from his mother sacrifice.

This protected Harry from the AK curse when he was a baby and prevented
LV
from being able to touch Harry until he shared Harry's blood at the end
of
GOF.

This protection did not make harry or the Dursley house invisible to
anyone
[muggles or wizards]

2. The protection from the pact between Dumbledore and Aunt Petunia
[seal
by
Lily's blood].

This protected Harry when Harry was at home [even when his aunt Petunia
wasn't home]

This protection did not make harry or the Dursley house invisible to
anyone
[muggles or wizards]

3. Fidelius Charm.

A charm which did make a house invisible.... the OOTP house not Harry's

I am sorry it took so long to get back to you - I had a weird problem.
Thunderbird would not log on to my news server no matter what I did - I
had
to switch to Outlook now.

I disagree with what you say about the house being invisible. That is
not
what a fidelius charm does.

If you look at the Potter residence - it did not hide it - it says in
one
of
the books that Voldemort could have looked directly through the windows
of
the house and NOT FIND that Potters there BEFORE he knew the secret. (I
wish
I had my books with me)

We KNOW that the secret for 12 Grimmaud place was that it was the
headquarters of the OOP.
But - Sirius says that there were other spells and enchantments that
made
the house unplottable. That is what hid the house.

I continue to believe that a Fidelius charm can only protect something
that
can be a secret - which is how it is presented as the secret keeping
charm.
The location of a house is unlikely to be a secret - at the very least
no
Sirius' house. We know that Belatrix and Narcissa knew where it was -
they
were possible inheritors after Sirius died.

What the spell CAN protect is the activity inside the house that did not
happen before the spell was cast - like hididng the Potters or the OOP
meetings. Those things can be a secret.

Look at it this way - if you could hide a house or buidling with a
Fidelius - you could conceivably hide anythingyou wanted to from its
owner
even. Imagine Harry and Hermione casting a spell that HID the Malfoy
manor.
Then Lucius, Narcissa, and Draco could not find their own home - I don't
think so. IF it was possible - any two wizards who could cast the spell
could wreak havoc on teh Wizarding world - by hiding the MOM
headquartes-
or
Hogwarts - or everybodys houses from view. THere would be no need for a
war - why not hide the entire wizarding world from Voldemort? (ALright -
maybe it is not a powerful enough spell to do that - but you must catch
my
meaning)



These are very good points.

We have a few examples of hidden buildings:
---
1 The Leaky Cauldron

Could only be seen by wizards or witches. It seem that all muggles could
not
see it at all and all wizards could.

Actually - that is not entirely true either.
THe LC is the entrance to Diagon Alley - and Hermione's parents were there
to get her supplies for school once. Obviously - parents of muggle borns -
who are muggles - can see the LC.




2 #12 Grimwald Place

No one, wizards or muggle could see it until they were told the secret.
Now
in this case it was DD, the secret keeper, who had to tell Harry [by
writing] before he could see it but it was made unplottable by the Blacks
not by DD. It appeared that it was the FC charm which made it not visible.

Actually - if your read the book again - you will find that NOT to be the
case.
Harry was given the note from DD before they left on their brooms.(it was o
the last page of the chapter as I recall of the book) He already KNEW the
secret BEFORE he arrived at 12 Grimmauld Place - and the house was still
hidden - so it was not the FC that hid the house.



3. Harry's old house AFTER the deaths of James and Lily

Was invisible to muggles but visible to wizards. There is also a memorial
to
the Potters nearby which wasn't hidden but looked like a war memorial to
muggles.

4. Hogwarts Castle

Seem to be like the potter's statue, not invisible but looked different to
muggles.
---

All these examples has the owner or caretaker doing the hiding. I think
that's why DD was concerned that Belatrix were possible inheritors after
Sirius died.

I agree - I still believe that you cannot hide a persons own things from
that person with an FC.
THe reason is obvious - those things cannot be a secret to the owner of them

I still believe an FC can only work on something that is capable of being a
secret. Both Narcissa and Belatrix had been at the Black house in their
youth - so its hidden location was NOT a secret to them - even if it was
unplottable to muggles. that is why I beleive that the "secret" was not the
location of the house - but the activity that was going on there -= it was
the OOP headquarters. that was capapbel of being a secret. AND - just like
the Potter residence - a person who was not in on the secret woudl not be
able to see the potters or the oop even if they looked directly through the
windows of the houses.



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Leaving the Dursleys.
    ... The protection Harry received from his mother sacrifice. ... This protected Harry from the AK curse when he was a baby and prevented LV ... This protection did not make harry or the Dursley house invisible to ... the house and NOT FIND that Potters there BEFORE he knew the secret. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Leaving the Dursleys.
    ... Harry been 'visible' they'd have known he was alone and would have ... left did not prevent them from locating Harry's house. ... The protection Harry received from his mother sacrifice. ... What the spell CAN protect is the activity inside the house that did not ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: More on the Fidelius Charm
    ... others who knew the secret could see ... Sirius was going to become the Secret Keeper but passed it on to Peter ... kill the Potters exploding part of the house. ... Charm because when Harry got to London he did *not* know the location ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Leaving the Dursleys.
    ... The protection Harry received from his mother sacrifice. ... This protected Harry from the AK curse when he was a baby and prevented LV ... This protection did not make harry or the Dursley house invisible to ... the house and NOT FIND that Potters there BEFORE he knew the secret. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Secret Keeper
    ... And these effect two effect (hides you but not if the secret keeper ... Harry is handed a piece of paper, ... "Unplottability" protects against someone who did'nt ... know the house from seeing the house, ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)