Re: death penalty

On 16 Nov., 00:14, Thom Madura <Tommad...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
mueckelein wrote:
On 15 Nov., 23:17, Green-Eyed Chris <cw...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article
<92f6ff72-d758-4160-8ee3-37058b0db...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,

Aaron <aaron...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 15, 8:09 am, Thom Madura <Tommad...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I also try to consider the stand on abortion as one of the major
deciding factors in a politician's overall suitability.
Which way?? You seem to come down on both sides of the issue!!
In which case Mitt Romney must be your candidate!! LOL
I often see both sides of an issue. I see no viable candidate in the
upcoming presidential election. They are all unacceptable.
That's nice but you say that a candidate's stand on abortion is a
major deciding factor in your mind, yet I still have no idea which
view impresses you positively.
If it were up to me, abortion would be illegal unless medical authority
indicated it dangerously threatened the life of the mother, and after
that, it would be the joint decision of the mother and father. In cases
of rape, it would be the mother's decision, alone.
Is that clear enough?
The current crop of 'presidential hopefuls' is about the most pathetic I
have seen in my 65 years, on both sides of the 'aisle'. PATHETIC!
Abortion is either legal - or it is not - as far as I am concerned. If
it is legal in one instance (Rape- or endangering a mother's life) -
then there is no reasonable reason why it should not be legal in all cases.
LOL
I love the English language. Can there BE an "unreasonable reason"? =)
If religion wants to enjoin its followers to something else - that is
their perogative for their adherents - and those who believe in it have
the right to follow their religious guidelines if they believe.
I take note that abortion is legal in the Jewish religion up to a
certain point - for instance.
However - those who are religious and give all those reasons for not
allowing abortion would clamor just as quickly if a different religion
that they did not believe was FORCED upon them. There is nothing
stopping those people from doing what their religion espouses. They have
no right to force their religious beliefs on others.
Once abortion is legal in any circumstance, there is no longer an
ability to "take the moral position" that is should not be allowed in
others. An unwanted child is as just as any other reason.
I agree with you. I like Ron's stance on when people *should* seek
abortion (presented in his post as when it should be allowed), but I
don't think we can dictate that choice.
It isn't cheap to have an abortion. Perhaps if insurance covered it
only in certain cases (or maybe this is already the case), then the
problem of abortion as birth control really is a negligible one.
It isn't exactly good for the mother, either. So, bad for the mother,
bad for the wallet...surely somehow we can make it worthwhile only in
cases where the child truly is unwanted/birth truly is a danger to the
mother.
Sometimes, I like it here in Germany. For decades, abortion has not been
a topic in political campaigns. After certain formalities, every
insurance covers abortions including the socially indicated.
--
Chris

I agree that laws are there for everybody, not that the rich people
can afford to have an abortion and the poor ones must have the kids.
But I still stick to the oppinion that we have been given brains, and
I am convinced we got them to use them and not to make our heads
heavier! Maybe people should first think and then act, not first act
and then say " Damn, big trouble now!" and then society has to pay for
their lacking responsibility.

While that sounds good - it is being completely unrealistic on quite a
number of levels.

Obviously - criminals have brains too - and society has to pay for their
lacking responsibility - even if they think first and then act
illegally. Are you suggesting we not pay for law enforcement and trust
peoples "brains"?

Are you then suggesting that if people use their brains - they will
always do the "right" thing? (There is that word again) Of course - that
depends on whose point of view you have - but even the very "brainiest"
person is likely to do something that someone will not agree with out
there. However - what is right for you is not always going to be what is
right for me. The same can be said for essential goodness of what you
do. I don't think we all agree that terrorism is the proper way to wage
a Fatah for force a religion upon others - BUT there are some who insist
it is not only right - but it is required.

It is possible that the cost to society may be higher for an improperly
raised child - whether they were wanted or not. We still do not have
required lessons in parenting. Nor do we have a consensus on the proper
way to raise a child. Nor can we say that a person who was reasonably
raised will turn out good.

The most telling is that if BRAINS were the answer - then we would
logically elect the smartest people to our governments. It appears that
that might not always be the case (lol). Yet - if you ask - the majority
of voters will tell you that they "used their brains" in choosing a
candidate.

Noone , not me either, ever said that all people who use their brains
turn out to be "good" people who act with responsibility. Most famous
criminals were and are highly intelligent and educated. They need
their brains for their "success".
I said if people thought more what they did they could avoid unplanned
situations and their consequences, like pregnancies after a
thoughtless act of sexual intercourse. You could add drinking and
driving to it, too. People just do what they wish without thinking and
when it ends in the personal catastrophy then they burst out in tears
of regret and despair. But as long as nothing happens they don´t see a
reason to change their behavior - as long as nothing happens......
Fact is that we have 300.000 abortions a year here in Germany. Related
to that number we have 780.000 births. Every fourth baby is killed. Is
that necessary?
Just to avoid misunderstandings: I don´t want to criminalise women who
decide to have an abortion - prison is no way to deal with them. These
women are in desperate situations and such a decision is often not
easy. Many women suffer from nightmares and feelings of deep guilt
afterwards, often for lifetime. That is more punishment for a
thoughtless act than I find adequate. But noone can take this decision
from the women. And once the abortion has been done there is no way
back. The baby is dead then. I don´t only want less babies killed, I
want less women to be in this incredibly weighing situation.
Therefore: first think, then act! That´s all.
.

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