Re: death penalty

Thom Madura wrote:

Drusilla wrote:

Thom Madura escribió:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Bill Blakely wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 02:27:28 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphunter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Bill Blakely wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 04:07:46 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphunter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


I also try to consider the stand on abortion as one of the major deciding factors in a politician's overall suitability.
Which way?? You seem to come down on both sides of the issue!!

In which case Mitt Romney must be your candidate!! LOL

I often see both sides of an issue. I see no viable candidate in the upcoming presidential election. They are all unacceptable.

That's nice but you say that a candidate's stand on abortion is a
major deciding factor in your mind, yet I still have no idea which
view impresses you positively.


If it were up to me, abortion would be illegal unless medical authority indicated it dangerously threatened the life of the mother, and after that, it would be the joint decision of the mother and father. In cases of rape, it would be the mother's decision, alone.

Is that clear enough?
The current crop of 'presidential hopefuls' is about the most pathetic I have seen in my 65 years, on both sides of the 'aisle'. PATHETIC!


Abortion is either legal - or it is not - as far as I am concerned. If it is legal in one instance (Rape- or endangering a mother's life) - then there is no reasonable reason why it should not be legal in all cases.

If religion wants to enjoin its followers to something else - that is their perogative for their adherents - and those who believe in it have the right to follow their religious guidelines if they believe.
I take note that abortion is legal in the Jewish religion up to a certain point - for instance.

However - those who are religious and give all those reasons for not allowing abortion would clamor just as quickly if a different religion that they did not believe was FORCED upon them. There is nothing stopping those people from doing what their religion espouses. They have no right to force their religious beliefs on others.

Once abortion is legal in any circumstance, there is no longer an ability to "take the moral position" that is should not be allowed in others. An unwanted child is as just as any other reason.

IICR, I've seen catholic priests defending abortions when the life of the mother is in danger. Of course, the ideal is that both of them survive, but in this case, I don't think there is any "punishment" or segregation for this option. More than a religious position, is a personal moral position, IMO: I wouldn't do it, even if I were atheist. And I do know a "very catholic" family who had made their daughter to abort because she shouldn't have gotten pregnant in first place.


ALthough I do not believe - it would be hard to find a more "catholic" family than mine. My Father and 3 of his brothers went to the seminary - My father and one brother left to become Dentists - but the other two ended up catholic monsignors. There were three nuns and another priest on the other side. (All but one are now dead).

The official Catholic position is NO ABORTION - let the birth happen and if the mother dies - that is God's will(that has happened in my family). No abortion is the position of virtually all christian religions - even in the event of rape or incest.

Obviously - their argument is about the "soul" - which they say is produced at the moment of conception - even though there is no support for that anywhere. IF their GOD is all knowing, then he knows which fetuses are going to be aborted and doesn't put one in. IF there is such a thing as a soul (The religious concept) - we have no idea when a person gets one.

However - once you agree that an abortion is OK to save a mother's life - you pretty much eliminate the two main reasons why they should not happen.

1 - The soul stuff. While you may have a belief in this, there is no basis in earthly fact that can support the government making a law against abortion based on it.

2 The fetus is a living breathing person from conception. This is clearly not true. The Jewish religion recognizes a point in the pregnancy when that becomes true. Science MIGHT support that possibility of a fetus to survive on its own at some point, but certainly not from conception. However - If you believe that an abortion is OK in order to save a mother's life - then what you are essentially saying is that the fetus' rights are subordinate to the mother until it is born. So - unless you plan the limit the time the mother has to protect her life - which I would be against - you are saying that the fetus is not a person until birth.(While that also may not be true - that is the inescapable conclusion)


The rationale behind allowing abortion if the mother's life is threatened is the concept of 'self defense', which many here have already said they DON'T accept. I do, as do most people who are against unregulated abortions.

Your statement about "even if I was an atheist" does not ring true. You are not one - and if you ever become one - your feelings would have to change dramatically from where they are today. I am not an atheist as such. I do not believe in religion - which as far as I am concerned is a man made form of making money off the fear and insecurity of the people.

If "I' were the god of religion - there are an awful lot of "ministers" who do not meet my description of Holy. Certainly the guy who is trying to raise $20 million to pay for his new Executive Jet falls into this category. He also has a $13,500 marble toilet in his home. One does not need a religion to be close to GOD.


An old saying: "The hot sun, the hard ground, and a slow mule, has made more preachers than God ever intended.", comes to mind.
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