Re: death penalty

Bill Blakely wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:03:00 -0000, "Alun L. Palmer"
<elektros@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Drusilla <gammanormidsERASETHIS@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:47351e39$0$26385$88260bb3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

mueckelein escribió:
On 8 Nov., 01:50, Thom Madura <Tommad...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Thom Madura wrote:
Toon wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 04:48:51 -0600, Ron Hunter
<rphun...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thorsten Schier wrote:
Ron Hunter schrieb:
Thorsten Schier wrote:
Ron Hunter schrieb:
Here in Minnesota wrote:
***Disclaimer: this topic is not to start a flame war on the
death penalty in the US etc; any such notes will be
ignored.*** It appears that the wizarding community does not
have the death penalty. This doesn't make sense.
The main reasons against the death penalty; cruelty, non
reversibility and the question of if a government has the
right to take a life. If wizards are against the death
penalty for any of these reasons they would be even more
against the dementor's kiss. It doesn't seem consistent.
I suppose some would argue that a person who has had his soul
sucked out isn't dead as he still breathes, and his heart
still beats, but it seems a worthless distinction to me. But
then weren't some sent through the veil in the past? Seems a
neater solution to me.
I am not into such hair splitting. Some things just require
the death penalty in order to assure the safety of society.
However, the death penalty does nothing at all to to ensure
the safety of the society. Quite the contrary. If even the
state murders people, how can criminals be expected to refrain
from doing so? In a society that considers murder to be a
solution for any problem at all, there will be more violence
than in a society that does not believe in the death penalty.
If you compare the USA and the EU, you can easily see that the
death penalty comes at a heavy prize for the USA: far more
crime and violence.
Thorsten
You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which they,
by definition, are NOT. There is no way to discuss the subject
as long as we can't agree on the definitions.
Executions certainly meet the definition of murder in most
jurisdictions of industrialised countries. If your country
insists in legalising some kinds of murder, this does not stop
people from other countries from calling it by the proper name.
Thorsten
Murder is the killing of an innocent person. So, if you commit a
crime, and I kill you, it's not murder?
If the crime was attacking you - and you killed in self defense -
it is not murder.
You will never convince him. Just as you will never convince him
that 'partial birth abortion' is 'baby killing'. Killing innocents
is fine, killing the guilty, who scoff at the laws of society, and
prey on the innocent is somehow wrong. Strange.
People seem so concerned with the rights of the lawbreaker, and so
little concerned with the lives, and rights, of the victims of those
lawbreakers.
Sorry - I don't consider partial birth abortion baby killing if it is
recommended by a doctor as the only way to save the life of the
mother involved. Since that IS the place where it is most used - I
believe that the doctors should have that option available to them in
that case. I need not hear any religious argument about whose life
should be saved - I do not believe in religion to begin with and I
also know that such a decision is incredibly hard to make.
Most (90 %) - legal - partial birth abortions here in Germany are for
"social reasons", meaning the mother can´t afford to breed a child.
Less than 10 % are beacause the mother is in danger, the child is
badly handicapped or the pregnancy is result of raping. Those three
are real reasons, I think.
In my eyes the more than 200.000 abortions for "social reasons ARE
murder. Here in this country noone has to suffer starvation or live
without a roof above his head. People always claim to have no money
for food but at the same time drink and smoke. I am convinced that
anyone who is willing to raise a child can do that here. My sister
and my brother both became parents unplanned during their time at the
University, and both raised their kids with love and care. They would
never have thought about "having it removed".
It´s more the old "Sex is fun" problem...Everyone wants to have sex
and doesn´t care for the possible risks. And that is not only HIV but
also pregnancies.
Well, sex is not only fun, it is an action which obviously affords
responsibility, and a lot of people seem to miss that. If a young
healthy woman has sex she can get pregnant - that should be no news to
anybody above 12. Nevertheless hormons seem to be beyond brains for a
lot of people. Otherwise we wouldn´t have that number of abortions.
The other day I was talking to a friend about this, and in our pesonal cases (meaning that we've not read any study about this, just _our experiences_ with friends and others) a) the most sexually
irresponsible a woman is the most likely to be pro-abortion she is and
b) a very small percentage of pro-abortion women are mothers, almost
none of them. We also realise that many woman who are avid
pro-abortion activists are women who don't like children at all. So,
it's very hard to sympathize with them when their main motivation seems
to be "I want to be prepare in case I get pregnant"

It's hard to have a white and Black opinion about this, because I believe in a pregnancy must be interrupted when the life of the mother is in risk. But if a 14 years old girl is irresponsible and sleeps around the town and then gets pregnant, I can't sympathize either and
to my eyes, is murder.


My wife is very much pro-choice, and we have two children. I believe she has donated money to NARAL in the past. I don't believe you are right when you say that all pro-choice activists are women who don't want children atall. I think that you are just projecting your own prejudices and that you don't know this to be true atall.

Same here. My wife would never, ever have had an abortion -- she'd
never use birth control of any kind, which is how we ended up with
eight children -- but at the same time she'd never vote for a
candidate for major political office who wasn't pro-choice.

It is worth noting that in the US the politicians who pander to the
religious right and are the most determined criminalize abortion tend
to be the ones who care about children the least once they are born.
But then they tend to also be the ones who care about people in
general the least.




I don't know if that generalization is of any more value than any other.
I am religious, and a conservative, and I believe that, except in cases of rape, 'choice' is when you decide to have sexual intercourse, and that you then accept the consequences, be they STDs, pregnancy, or just a case of 'crabs'. Anyone who believes there is any such thing as 'safe sex' is an idiot.
I am opposed to 'abortion on demand', but I am not going to hunt down and kill abortion doctors, or picket abortion clinics, or disown relatives, or friends who have had abortions. On the other hand, I would never advocate that solution for any of them, should they ask me. I also try to consider the stand on abortion as one of the major deciding factors in a politician's overall suitability.

Congratulations on the large family. I hope the experience has been rewarding.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: death penalty
    ... death penalty in the US etc; ... You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which they, ... that 'partial birth abortion' is 'baby killing'. ... healthy woman has sex she can get pregnant - that should be no news to ...
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  • Re: death penalty
    ... death penalty in the US etc; ... You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which they, ... badly handicapped or the pregnancy is result of raping. ... ever have had an abortion -- she'd ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: death penalty
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