Re: death penalty

Ron Hunter wrote:
Alun L. Palmer wrote:
Ron Hunter <rphunter@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:YuSdnYKXY77fsKnanZ2dnUVZ_vqpnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxx:
Thorsten Schier wrote:
Ron Hunter schrieb:
Thorsten Schier wrote:

Ron Hunter schrieb:

Thorsten Schier wrote:

Ron Hunter schrieb:

Thom Madura wrote:

Toon wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 04:48:51 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphunter@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thorsten Schier wrote:

Ron Hunter schrieb:

Thorsten Schier wrote:

Ron Hunter schrieb:

[...]


You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which
they, by definition, are NOT. There is no way to discuss
the subject as long as we can't agree on the definitions.


Executions certainly meet the definition of murder in most jurisdictions of industrialised countries. If your country insists in legalising some kinds of murder, this does not
stop people from other countries from calling it by the
proper name.
Thorsten


Murder is the killing of an innocent person.



So, if you commit a crime, and I kill you, it's not murder?



If the crime was attacking you - and you killed in self defense
- it is not murder.



You will never convince him. Just as you will never convince him
that 'partial birth abortion' is 'baby killing'.


A foetus is not yet a baby. So you can call abortion "foetus killing" if you like to do so, but not "baby killing".

YOUR definition, and I STRONGLY disagree with your definition!

I believe my definition is the legal definition in most developed countries, including yours.

Killing innocents is fine, killing the guilty, who scoff at the laws of society, and prey on the innocent is somehow wrong. Strange. People seem so concerned with the rights of the
lawbreaker,


Well, even lawbreakers are human beings and should have some
rights.
To get this ontopic again, do you think that Draco Malfoy should
be executed for his crimes, which after all include at least
several counts of attempted murder?

Nope, just life in a nice clean, secure facility.
His dad, on the other hand, should be executed.

Please remind me, which crime did his dad commit that was worse than
anything Draco did?

It's a bit harder to call for the death of a criminal when you
know a bit more about him and his background and when you can see
him as a human being, isn't it?

No. Not at all.

And yet you call for the death of the Texas Seven, several of whom look like petty criminals compared to Draco Malfoy. Draco is, after all, guilty of at least 4 counts of attempted murder and a case
could be made that he is partly responsible for the murders and
other crimes Voldemort committed in his presence (comparable to the
case of the Texas Seven who are all in the death row for a murder
which only one of them did commit).

and so little concerned with the lives, and rights, of the
victims of those lawbreakers.


The death penalty, however, does nothing for the victims of lawbreakers. Quite the contrary. The spirit of violence created in
a society by the death penalty just produces even more victims. A society that thinks that killing is a good solution for problems with some of their members is in trouble.

BUNK!

Sorry, but I don't really get what you are trying to say. Perhaps
you could rephrase your sentence?

If you want to reduce the number of crime victims, here is an
idea: get your country a decent social welfare system so that the
losers in your society don't have to choose between starvation and
crime.
We have that.

Oh, and I was under the impression that you are a resident of the USA. Sorry, my mistake.

Thorsten
Perhaps if you lived here, you might be qualified to comment, but you
don't, so you aren't.

Have you even ever visited the US?
No, but I can read. For example the restrictions imposed on social welfare for families by the "Temporary Assistance for Needy Families" have been an issue in the German press. Also the fact that millions of
Americans don't even have health insurance is well known here. And in the age of the internet it is of course quite possibly to be informed about laws in other countries without living there.

Thorsten
What is not mentioned in those articles, or covered by the press, is that ANYONE (yes, even illegal immigrants) can go to any county
hospital in the US and get treatment. Providing this service costs
billions of dollars each year, JUST to treat illegal immigrants. So,
no 'insurance', but free medical care to everyone IS available. Sometimes those who use the facilities of county hospitals get a better
deal than those of us who HAVE insurance.
So, yes, it DOES matter that you don't live in the US.


Not all states have county hospitals. We don't have any in Maryland. Granted that all hospitals here have a duty to treat anyone who comes into emergency, but they bill the patient the full price, which in some cases is MORE than they charge insurance companies. Many of those bills don't get paid and become bad debts, but acquiring bad debts on a credit history doesn't meet any sensible definition of free care.

Sigh. And people look down on Texas? Perhaps something needs to be done in Maryland. Remind me to avoid going there again.

County Hospitals are not FREE - even if they do not charge you for their services. Someone has to pay for them - and in Texas - that means that the residents of the county have to pay for what is not paid for otherwise. So - in the end - the county residents are paying for the health care of the illegal aliens who don't pay for it themselves.
.

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