Re: death penalty

mueckelein escribió:
On 8 Nov., 01:50, Thom Madura <Tommad...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Thom Madura wrote:
Toon wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 04:48:51 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphun...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Thorsten Schier wrote:
Ron Hunter schrieb:
Thorsten Schier wrote:
Ron Hunter schrieb:
Here in Minnesota wrote:
***Disclaimer: this topic is not to start a flame war on the
death penalty in the US etc; any such notes will be ignored.***
It appears that the wizarding community does not have the death
penalty. This doesn't make sense.
The main reasons against the death penalty; cruelty, non
reversibility and the question of if a government has the right
to take a life. If wizards are against the death penalty for
any of these reasons they would be even more against the
dementor's kiss. It doesn't seem consistent.
I suppose some would argue that a person who has had his soul
sucked out isn't dead as he still breathes, and his heart still
beats, but it seems a worthless distinction to me. But then
weren't some sent through the veil in the past? Seems a neater
solution to me.
I am not into such hair splitting. Some things just require the
death penalty in order to assure the safety of society.
However, the death penalty does nothing at all to to ensure the
safety of the society. Quite the contrary. If even the state
murders people, how can criminals be expected to refrain from
doing so? In a society that considers murder to be a solution for
any problem at all, there will be more violence than in a society
that does not believe in the death penalty.
If you compare the USA and the EU, you can easily see that the
death penalty comes at a heavy prize for the USA: far more crime
and violence.
Thorsten
You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which they, by
definition, are NOT. There is no way to discuss the subject as
long as we can't agree on the definitions.
Executions certainly meet the definition of murder in most
jurisdictions of industrialised countries. If your country insists
in legalising some kinds of murder, this does not stop people from
other countries from calling it by the proper name.
Thorsten
Murder is the killing of an innocent person.
So, if you commit a crime, and I kill you, it's not murder?
If the crime was attacking you - and you killed in self defense - it
is not murder.
You will never convince him. Just as you will never convince him that
'partial birth abortion' is 'baby killing'. Killing innocents is fine,
killing the guilty, who scoff at the laws of society, and prey on the
innocent is somehow wrong. Strange.
People seem so concerned with the rights of the lawbreaker, and so
little concerned with the lives, and rights, of the victims of those
lawbreakers.
Sorry - I don't consider partial birth abortion baby killing if it is
recommended by a doctor as the only way to save the life of the mother
involved. Since that IS the place where it is most used - I believe that
the doctors should have that option available to them in that case. I
need not hear any religious argument about whose life should be saved -
I do not believe in religion to begin with and I also know that such a
decision is incredibly hard to make.

Most (90 %) - legal - partial birth abortions here in Germany are for
"social reasons", meaning the mother can´t afford to breed a child.
Less than 10 % are beacause the mother is in danger, the child is
badly handicapped or the pregnancy is result of raping. Those three
are real reasons, I think.
In my eyes the more than 200.000 abortions for "social reasons ARE
murder. Here in this country noone has to suffer starvation or live
without a roof above his head. People always claim to have no money
for food but at the same time drink and smoke. I am convinced that
anyone who is willing to raise a child can do that here. My sister
and my brother both became parents unplanned during their time at the
University, and both raised their kids with love and care. They would
never have thought about "having it removed".
It´s more the old "Sex is fun" problem...Everyone wants to have sex
and doesn´t care for the possible risks. And that is not only HIV but
also pregnancies.
Well, sex is not only fun, it is an action which obviously affords
responsibility, and a lot of people seem to miss that. If a young
healthy woman has sex she can get pregnant - that should be no news to
anybody above 12. Nevertheless hormons seem to be beyond brains for a
lot of people. Otherwise we wouldn´t have that number of abortions.

The other day I was talking to a friend about this, and in our pesonal cases (meaning that we've not read any study about this, just _our experiences_ with friends and others) a) the most sexually irresponsible a woman is the most likely to be pro-abortion she is and b) a very small percentage of pro-abortion women are mothers, almost none of them. We also realise that many woman who are avid pro-abortion activists are women who don't like children at all. So, it's very hard to sympathize with them when their main motivation seems to be "I want to be prepare in case I get pregnant"

It's hard to have a white and Black opinion about this, because I believe in a pregnancy must be interrupted when the life of the mother is in risk. But if a 14 years old girl is irresponsible and sleeps around the town and then gets pregnant, I can't sympathize either and to my eyes, is murder.


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: death penalty
    ... death penalty in the US etc; ... You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which they, ... that 'partial birth abortion' is 'baby killing'. ... healthy woman has sex she can get pregnant - that should be no news to ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: death penalty
    ... The main reasons against the death penalty; ... to take a life. ... You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which they, by ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: death penalty
    ... The main reasons against the death penalty; ... death penalty in order to assure the safety of society. ... You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which they, by ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: death penalty
    ... The main reasons against the death penalty; ... to take a life. ... You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which they, by ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: death penalty
    ... death penalty in the US etc; ... You persist in calling legal executions 'murder', which they, ... meaning the mother can´t afford to breed a child. ... healthy woman has sex she can get pregnant - that should be no news to ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
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