Re: death penalty

Thom Madura wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Bill Blakely wrote:
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 04:11:01 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphunter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Toon wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:04:15 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphunter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

You will never convince him. Just as you will never convince him that 'partial birth abortion' is 'baby killing'.
Dran tooting it is. From the moment of conception, you have life.
Killing it, is murder (the real problem is, they don't look human).
Killing the guilty is still murder, but under a much more friendly
term of execution, done to protect others.

Killing innocents is fine,
Not according to most societies.

killing the guilty, who scoff at the laws of society, and prey on the innocent is somehow wrong. Strange.
Nope, but it doesn't make it right. Being necessary doesn't make it
OK.

People seem so concerned with the rights of the lawbreaker, and so little concerned with the lives, and rights, of the victims of those lawbreakers.
Sadly yes. Just as they seem concerned with those who make minor
infractions of the law, then those who commit real crimes. Let alone
the punishment of a trial. Many times, admitting guilt gets you a
plea bargain and a reduced sentence. Failing to prove your innocence
gets you worse.
In the US, it is NOT required that you prove your innocence, but that the state prove guilt.

That's a fairy tale, Ron, as you'll quickly learn if you're ever
arrested for anything.

No. It's not.
The only case in which 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't work is when one is accused of child molestation. Then one if guilty, even if he can prove he was orbiting the earth when the offense happened.


THe state of Louisiana does not use the British "innocent until proven guilty" basis - they use the opposite - the French "guilty until proven innocent" as their law.

However - in all other states - the ability the courts have to detain you when charged pretty much amounts to the same thing. If you are truly innocent until proven guilty - they should not be able to do that - so it is somewhere in the middle.

There are limits on how long one can be detained in this way in the US, which is not always the case in other countries.
How would you propose to manage any law enforcement if one couldn't be detained at all?
Bail is almost always available unless one has skipped out on it before, or demonstrates that he is a danger to society (and often even then).
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: death penalty
    ... Killing it, is murder. ... The only case in which 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't work is when one is accused of child molestation. ... THe state of Louisiana does not use the British "innocent until proven guilty" basis - they use the opposite - the French "guilty until proven innocent" as their law. ... If you are considered NOT to have committed the crime - there is no reasonable cause to hold a person for trial. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: death penalty
    ... Killing it, is murder. ... The only case in which 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't work is when one is accused of child molestation. ... THe state of Louisiana does not use the British "innocent until proven guilty" basis - they use the opposite - the French "guilty until proven innocent" as their law. ... However - in all other states - the ability the courts have to detain you when charged pretty much amounts to the same thing. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: death penalty
    ... Killing it, is murder. ... admitting guilt gets you a ... The only case in which 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't work is when one is accused of child molestation. ... THe state of Louisiana does not use the British "innocent until proven guilty" basis - they use the opposite - the French "guilty until proven innocent" as their law. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: death penalty
    ... Killing it, is murder. ... The only case in which 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't work is when one is accused of child molestation. ... THe state of Louisiana does not use the British "innocent until proven guilty" basis - they use the opposite - the French "guilty until proven innocent" as their law. ... Bail is almost always available unless one has skipped out on it before, or demonstrates that he is a danger to society. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: death penalty
    ... Killing it, is murder. ... The only case in which 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't work is when one is accused of child molestation. ... THe state of Louisiana does not use the British "innocent until proven guilty" basis - they use the opposite - the French "guilty until proven innocent" as their law. ... Bail is almost always available unless one has skipped out on it before, or demonstrates that he is a danger to society. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)