Re: So, What Was The problem WIth Dumbeldore
- From: dicconf@xxxxxxxxx (Richard Eney)
- Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:26:23 -0000
In article <1192523481.801659.59500@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
David Sueme <dsueme@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Oct 12, 8:05 am, Paracelsus <petersim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Harry was one when his parents died so he would have preserved
some subconscious memory which the mirror could have drawn out.
In canon, Harry has a memory of voices and even words from that
traumatic day; it is quite reasonable that he would have a buried
memory of his parents' faces. Moreover, the mirror's magic is
_designed_ to pull from the viewer's subconscious mind to add
verisimilitude to the images it produces.
3. Wizard portraits. The nature of portraits is not clear from the books
but they appear to be a form of artificial intelligence which duplicates
some aspects of the subject's personality.
The difference between Potterverse (PV) photos and muggle photos is
that the PV photos are "animate" in some limited sense (DD's card
photo that could leave to do other business is an anomaly). The PV
paintings relate to the photographs by being "moreso" - the images are
more mobile and now speak and can obey simple instructions.
The PV paintings can visit each other, gossip, and have personalities.
They can also be impatient, and the Fat Lady goes off duty to visit a
friend, thus disobeying her instructions to be available to open the
door. She also seems to be unable to close the door until after someone
has gone through (a weakness in the security system).
I saw the desire mirror images and the HP4 graveyard phantoms/shades
as representing a similar dynamic. The mirror displayed a mute image
of the dead - but they are greater than PV photos in that they convey
genuine emotions, while the photos are automatons. The HP4 phantoms
built upon this by being able to speak.
The photos are like short mpegs, cycling. When Hagrid makes them move
around to show people who were hidden behind the crowd, that is an
anomaly. Later, in OotP, photos even squeak in alarm when their
protective glass is broken. Another anomaly put in for mild humor,
since nothing ever comes of that ability.
Page 559 and following in the British / Canadian adult edition. Harry
goes to Voldemort in the company of his parents, Sirius and Lupin. In
addition to their other capabilities, they act as patronuses to repel
And you are correct - but I was too. The shades _are_ different. As
to the forest shades, Rowling made a fig leaf to hide behind - the
resurrection stone. But I am rather offended by this, and you should
be too. In HP5, Sirius dies and goes through a curtain. Luna and
Nick explain that the dead "cross over" into another plane of
existence. If the dead continue to have an existence, then why are
they different when delivered here by owl post or via the floo
The Resurrection Stone in its original form brought the dead back in
a physical body that could be touched. However, I got the impression
that the recreated body was somewhat fragile. After having been used
as a horcrux and then broken, the Resurrection Stone didn't seem to
produce quite as strong a result, but I had the impression that it
still produced a body that was touchable, more solid than the visual
and temperature special effects that a ghost manifests.
7. The vision of Dumbledore which Harry had in the King's Cross chapter.
It was not clear to me with this was a result of the use of the
Absolutely not. Harry dropped the RS. Rowling has no excuse to offer
for the fact that this version of the dead is so much more sentient
than previous ones.
The version in the King's Cross chapter is significantly different
from the previous versions of the dead.
Harry is not in the mundane world in that chapter. He is out of body,
existing in an intermediate location - a kind of limbo, though not the
standard one - in which Dumbledore's real spirit can meet and talk to
Harry. It isn't a stone-resurrected pseudobody, nor is it a ghost,
since ghosts have not left the earth. It is Dumbledore's soul,
returned partway to a meeting point; the image that Harry "sees" is
filtered by what his mind can accept, so it looks like Dumbledore.
But JKR has DD explain that much of what Harry is perceiving is
essentially a mental construct that lets him accept and label things
that he might otherwise reject.
The vision of Dumbledore was summoned without any active spell being
cast. Unlike the wand shades it was visible only in Harry`s head and
was much more long lasting.
And Rowling offers no coherent reason why this is so.
It was long lasting because it is DD's eternal soul, manifesting in
a spirit realm, so it is not dependent on a wand or a stone for either
its existence or its manifestation.
- Re: So, What Was The problem WIth Dumbeldore
- From: David Sueme
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