Re: Translations from UK to US

Ron Hunter wrote:
kilroy1941 wrote:
"Alun L. Palmer" <elektros@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:Xns99B4C42878225elektrosmdonet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sirius Kase <SiriusKase@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:1189997593.622783.80870@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

On Sep 16, 11:38 am, Bill Blakely <wcblak...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 07:49:07 -0700, Sirius Kase <SiriusK...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



On Sep 16, 9:23 am, Bill Blakely <wcblak...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 03:04:24 -0500, Ron Hunter
<rphun...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Bill Blakely wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 14:56:05 -0500, Ron Hunter
<rphun...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Bill Blakely wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:50:08 -0500, Ron Hunter
<rphun...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I don't. Somehow the following makes me cringe:
Have you read that Patrick Henry said; "Give me liberty, or
give me death?" Sorta corrupts the meaning, doesn't it?
I don't see it, Ron. I also don't think the comma is standard
usage in that case, either.
However, I do agree that British punctuation generally makes
more sense than American.
The ending punctuation for the sentence is, currently, supposed
to be inside the quotation marks. This is simply WRONG.
NOTHING belongs inside a set of quotation marks but the QUOTE.
Changing the ending punctuation is downright illegal, as it
changes the meaning of the item attributed to the author.
Worse than plagiarism in my book.
Sorry, I was thinking about the comma and the question mark went
right by me!!
I agree totally: that punctuation is totally wrong. But keeping
a sentence's punctuation outside any quoted material it contains
is exactly why I think British punctuation is better.
I don't know just how British rules differ. I suspect that
some of the changes made in the US weren't made in the UK, but
nothing really drastic, I am sure.
I believe they would render it thus: Have you read that Patrick
Henry said: "Give me liberty, or give me death!"?
Hopefully one of our friends in the UK will confirm or deny
that.
If so, then I would agree that the British punctuation is better.
I do know that MS Word grammar checker INSISTS that the ending
punctuation goes INSIDE the quotation marks,
That is standard American practice, and it's never made sense to
me.
and this is just plain WRONG
as it may
change the meaning of the quotation. Misquoting in that way is an
insult to the person quoted, and could, under some circumstances,
lead to legal problems.
Somewhere along the line some American grammar and punctuation
weenie made a very bad choice. I make it a practice, especially in
more formal writing, to avoid putting quoted material at the end of
a sentence. In this case I would say something like: Have you
read that Patrick Henry said, "Give me liberty, or give me death!"
in a speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses?
I'm still learning so it seems. I always put the punctuation where
it belongs, as in, if it belongs to the quote, it goes inside, if it
belongs to the whole sentence, it goes outside. I didn't realize
someone had made a rule to do otherwise. I don't use a grammar
checker and when I read, I see it done both ways. I'm not even sure
if what you say about weenies is correct. Is this a Microsoft thing?
No, the American rules were established by various style handbooks,
and they long predate Microsoft. But see Thom Madura's post
clarifying the American rules.
I did see his post. It had no source, therefore it is meaningless.
It looks like something from a middle school prep course in how to
pass an essay writing test.



The American and British rules differ on this and on many other points of
grammar. Those who say that following the American rule and adding
punctuation into a quote could be libel even in the US have a very valid
point, although it is hard to think of an example in which it does change
the meaning.

One thing (amongst many) that does p*ss me off about MS Word, is that many
common words that my teachers taught me were compound words as a child it
tries to split into two. For example, atall, eachother and thankyou. The
odd thing is that I can't find dictionaries to support the way that I have
been writing these words all my life, but my schoolteachers in England long
ago taught me never to write them as two separate words. I would have earnt
red Xs in school for writing at all, each other and thank you, but Word
thinks I should. Maybe it's yet another Americanism.

I'm not quite sure if these are Americanisms or not. I was always taught that "thank you" was to be written as "thankyou". Only in the past 10 years or so was I told that it should be "thank you". "At all" and "each other", however, were always two words.

Usage seems to be moving 'each other' toward 'eachother'. Frankly, it makes more sense that way (together), just as 'together' makes more sense than 'to gether'.
I am very much in favor of putting together words that are used in concert, more often than separately. It just looks better to me.
I can't say if they are 'Americanisms', or not, as I have little experience with other dialects of English beyond those in the US and Canada. And my experience in Canada is limited to Toronto, and Victoria , B.C.


I would not be in favor of using combination words. German uses them an awful lot (Eargesplitzenloudenboomenmachengrossenholeinground is an atomic bomb!) They are not Americanisms - we do not use eachother combined that I have seen. Together is not the combination of two words that can stand alone and have the same meaning - so the analogy doesn't work there.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Translations from UK to US
    ... The ending punctuation for the sentence is, currently, supposed ... changes the meaning of the item attributed to the author. ... That is standard American practice, and it's never made sense to ... No, the American rules were established by various style handbooks, ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Translations from UK to US
    ... The ending punctuation for the sentence is, currently, supposed ... changes the meaning of the item attributed to the author. ... That is standard American practice, and it's never made sense to ... No, the American rules were established by various style handbooks, ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Translations from UK to US
    ... Changing the ending punctuation is downright illegal, ... changes the meaning of the item attributed to the author. ... or give me death!"? ... No, the American rules were established by various style handbooks, ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Translations from UK to US
    ... Sorta corrupts the meaning, doesn't it? ... punctuation is downright illegal, as it changes the meaning of the item ... That is standard American practice, and it's never made sense to me. ... belongs, as in, if it belongs to the quote, it goes inside, if it ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Translations from UK to US
    ... Changing the ending punctuation is downright illegal, ... changes the meaning of the item attributed to the author. ... No, the American rules were established by various style handbooks, ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)