Re: I'm ok, thanks.

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 04:11:58 +0200, Green-Eyed Chris
<cwlNO@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <m8pmc3pqftjrptmuav28ej08bho6trvejk@xxxxxxx>,
Meghan Noecker <friesian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:21:14 +0200, Green-Eyed Chris
<cwlNO@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <beilc3t3vvn6amojep1cvudisct2to0eaq@xxxxxxx>,
Meghan Noecker <friesian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:46:46 -0500, Ron Hunter <rphunter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

There is none. The Democrats want all illegal immigrants given
citizenship because they would tend to vote Democrat, and 12 million new
voters really gets their attention. The Republicans like the positive
effect that millions of low income wage earners have on the production
economy. Neither side really wants to address the negative side of the
equation, which costs billions of dollars each year in healthcare alone.


What I don't understand is what the expect to happen if they do grant
legal status to all these illegals. The only reason they work the
cheap jobs is because they can't get good jobs. If they become legal,
they too will not work for dirt cheap, and those cheap jobs will need
a new set of illegals, while have a ton more people who expect higher
paying jobs.

We need a real solution that fixes the job issue as well as the
illegal issue.

As I have said, we have similar problems here and the politicians are
also split. You have a 50/50 congress and we have a grand coalition. The
hot potato on the table here at the moment is the introduction of a
minimum wage in sectors that have not previously had one.

I can well imagine that many employers in the States fear a major leap
in the minimum wage by giving legal status to the illegals.



I don't think the minimum wage would go up because of legal status. I
think the main problem would be the jobs that pay under the table,
lower than minimum rates. They will either have to find new illegals,
or finally pay a decent rate, and that means that need to get used to
higher prices for our products. While that should be done, it will be
hard as it is tough making ends meet on lower wages already.

Our state minimum wage is higher than the federal minimum wage, and I
make more than that. But it is is still hard as all the costs are
going up, but my own wages do not. Gas is up, food is up, health
insurance and copays are up, etc.

I actually made $3000 less in 2004 as oppsed to 2003 because our
contract went down. And I am a journeyman clerk at the highest wage I
can get without becoming a checker (and I would have to work 3000
hours before I would qualify for a raise). We are currently 4 months
past the contract expiration with no contract agreement. We are
supposed to vote soon, and after being told it was going well, we are
now being told to vote for a strike because the offer is so bad. The
last contract was the worst I have seen in 18 years.

When the issues of raising the minimum wage come up, people think
about how much it will help the lower end people, and a lot of people
assume that all wages gone up. But that hasn't happened here.

Every position in my store starts at mimum wage in real life. But on
paper, they start at lower than minimum wage. You have to work more
than 1000 hours before you get to a level above minimum wage. One of
my newer coworkers has been her over 2 years, and he makes 20 cents
above minimum wage. He works a lot harder than the courtesy clerks who
bag groceries, but he gets no reward for it.

While it sounds nice to bring up the bottom group, the prices are
raised to cover those wages, so the bottom stays even (never gets
ahead) and everybody else loses buying power as their wages stay the
same and their costs go up.

There is no easy solution. I believe the real problem is that people
didn't used to expect to live on a minimum wage job. Those jobs were
supposed to be starter jobs for kids and people with no job
experience. People were supposed to be able to move up to better
paying jobs. But somehow that has gotten lost. We have more bottom
jobs and less abilty to move up.

Whew! I wish I could snip your posting down to size, but what can I say
when it's the same story over here? I believe that what you call under
the table and is called the black or dark economy over here hits us even
harder (I'll give your daughter a nose job if you repair my roof).

Under the table in the US is more paying someone for a job and not
reporting those wages to the IRS, meaning they are not paying taxes on
their wages. For example, my brother did this for a long, long time.
It's a good thing in a way he's passed away this year because pretty
soon, this would have made his future life more miserable than it had
been. You see, though the people get more money in their hands at the
time - but they don't get the end benefits of old age. It works like
this: say you make 10.00 and hour and work 8 hours in a day. You get
80.00 cash that day. You spend it and yay, the government didn't take
20.00 out of it! Sounds good? Not really. you are not paying social
security and medicare or disability... so when you retire, you don't
get these benefits or they are very low! You screw yourself
basically. I strongly suggest people pay their taxes and if they want
to work under the table to keep more, do it as a minimum (it's illegal
anyway over a certain dollar amount)

The
difference is that most European societies are social democracies, a
concept that is hard to explain to most Americans as their visceral
reaction is still ~commie pinko~. The bottom line is that more things
are run and regulated by the state (like universal healthcare) and that
higher taxes are necessary to finance it. I am trying to keep it as
general as possible because this is certainly not my field.

But even under our shaky health care system, I know that when my
Alzheimers hits me next Tuesday, my daughters will be financially forced
to get me an illegal Polish (= Mexican) nurse. Considering the
demographics of the problem and the demand for such people, they might
not even be able to find one. (...and I was so hoping for a Polish girl.)

As for moving up the ladder, I have to ask you where the damned thing
has gone? I certainly don't see it here. Many who work here for minimum
wage would be better off on welfare where more and more academics and
professionals are also landing.

Glancing over the big pond, I do not even dare mention personal and
national debt.

.

Relevant Pages

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