Re: DH rumour list

richard e white wrote:
nystulc@xxxxxx wrote:
And has said that you only get one form.

Not very relevant to my theory, since my preferred version of the
theory gives McGonagall only one "animagus form", with her other
transformations being of the non-animagus variety.

However, please tell me where this is stated, because I have
never been able to find it.

The coment that maggonical is a cat is in book three just after
the first divanation class.

Not what I was asking about. Anyway, is Sirius ate a canary cream, he
would be a canary, and an animagus, but not a canary animagus.
Similarly, we know that McGonagall is a cat, and an animagus, but not
that she is a cat animagus.

As to the one shape for an animogy transformation it was in an
interview. I'm not sure which one but it was right around the
book fore release. I think it was before the release though.
Most of the questions were about the transformation.

I think the quote you are thinking of may be the one where she says an
animagus does not get to choose their form. They may study for years
and years and then find they can become a warthog.

This SUGGESTS that an animagus can have only one form, but does not
say so. A person could find they have an natural affinity with more
than one animal. The student could receive more than one surprise in
his surprise package.

Please note that "only one form", insofar as it is implied in this
context, only means "only one animagus form". There is no implication
that a canagy creams will not work on Sirius Black.

In QTTA it says that wizards and witches that are transformed
by other means then the animogy transformation get the brain
of the new form and forget where they were going.

Incorrect. What it states is that this happens to such wizards
who try to use such transformation to gain the power to fly.

I didn't use an exsact quote and nither did you. If you post the
bit the others can see it for themselves.

I cannot find my copy at the moment, so perhaps some other kind soul
will do the honors. I know I checked the language before with this
precise objection in mind.

What this probably means is that you need an bird's brain to fly
like a bird. Only animagi can gain this benefit, while
simultaneously retaining their human intelligence.

That is the jest of the comment.

Right. And you do not need a bird brain if you are merely going to
sit on a wall all day, looking like a bird.

However, a transformation that
gives one only the outer appearance of a bird, without the
benefits of a bird-brain (such as flight) may still be possible
for non-animagi.

True but it would have to be a big bird as changing the brains
size could also effect the change.

This is not necessarily so. We know this, of course, because animagi
can change their brain size without losing human intelligence. Even
Rita Skeeter ...

We know that only animagi can manage the trick of simultaneously
gaining the benefits of bird and animal brains. We do not know that
adapting the size of the brain is the core obstacle for non-animagi.
The main obstacle for non-animagi could be something entirely
different.

Wizards don't seem to have much of a problem playing around with
space, and should not have much problem fitting an essentially-human
brain into a small animal skull.

I'd also like to remind you that such evidence as there is suggests
that Malfoy retained human intelligence while transformed into a
ferret.

As Krum proved, incomplete transformation is possible. One
could give oneself the outer appearance of an animal, and retain
a human brain. Krum, for instance gave himself a shark head, but
retained a human brain inside that shark's head.

While this is posable with a shark do to the size, I don't think
it would work with a bird. But we do know that partail
transformation can let one fly. The child with wings at the
hospital is proff of that as well. But it was the wings that the
child got not the head. Not much reason to do the head for flight.

Recall that her father was holding her tightly by the ankle --
probably for good reason. What happened to the child is being treated
as a magical injury.

QTTA says non-animagi cannot use animal transformation to gain the
ability to fly while retaining a human-controlled mind. Nothing about
this passage disproves that.

Logically, either the QTTA quote is wrong, or the child we see does
not have a human-controlled mind. She has gained the benefits of a
bird flight, but not the benefits of human control.

Her outward appearance does not prove otherwise.

This is a good reason to suspect that Brain SIZE is not the issue. If
it were then the QTTA quote would be incorrect.

Presumably, he could also have given himself a bird-head, while
retaining a human mind. He could have given himself a dolphin
head, while retaining a human mind. Such an incomplete
transformation, however, would not have given many of the
creatures natural abilities that are dependent on animal brain
function. Presumably, he could not simultaneously gain a human
mind within a dolphin head, and still gain a dolphin's sonar
abilities (unless he is a dolphin animagus). Such a skill is too
brain-dependent. Same with a bird's ability to fly.

But the child is shown as being in the air by just haveing the
wings. So it doesn't seam that the brain was needed.

You are confusing outward appearance with brain function. Just
because she looks human, does not mean her brain was not altered to
achieve the flight ability.

If the QTTA quote is correct (and, unless there is proof of a genuine
contradiction, I will assume it *is* correct) then she MUST have got
more than just wings, or she could not have gained flight ability.
This is probably why her father needs to hold her ankle so firmly.

My question is how dangerous is partal transformations?

Don't know. In Book 4, Hermione speaks of wizards using cross-species
switches (on themselves, presumably) to give themselves extra powers.
She says these are very complex spells.

It is pointless to quibble that Krum only transformed his head,
and left the rest of the body still human. The head is the part
that contains the brain. If he can transform his head and retain
human intelligence, he can transform his whole body, and retain
human intelligence.

Not acording to the writer.

I am not yet aware that the writer has said anything to contradict
this.

And the size of the shark head might be the desideing factor.

For reasons stated above, I don't think so.

That is why Krum only did a partal transformation. If he
went all the way he would of had the mind of a shark as well.

He transformed his head, the part that contains his brain.
He managed a partial transformation on his head (granting the
outer appearance, but retaining the human mind), and what he
does to the rest of his body should be irrelevant. I suspect
the real reason he opted not to transform his trunk and limbs
was that he wanted to still be able to use his wand. Indeed,
the particular spell he used may have required
him to use his wand to untransform himself.

Yes. But part of the partal change was most likely not giveing
himself the brain of a shark.

I agree.

And I don't see anything wrong with partal changes that did
everthing but the brain. And I expect you are right as to why he
wanted his hands free. But it's turning the brain as well that's
has the danger.

I agree that messing with the brain is the danger. But it does not
necessarily follow that fitting the human brain into a small space
(like fitting alot of luggage into the trunk of Mr. Weasley's car)
necessarily involves much danger.

I expect that was part of what happend to the dog headed woman at
the hospital.

Indeed, but the problem need not have been brain size

I think that some or all of her
brain went as well, makeing the return harder if not imposable.
Then again she might have been trying the animogy transformation.
That one is said to be able to go horrably wrong.

True.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: DH rumour list
    ... As to the one shape for an animogy transformation it was in an interview. ... What this probably means is that you need an bird's brain to fly like ... Krum, for instance gave himself a shark head, but retained a human ... while retaining a human mind. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: DH rumour list
    ... Hermione what sort of transformation McGonagall was demonstrating. ... What this probably means is that you need an bird's brain to fly like ... Krum, for instance gave himself a shark head, but retained a human ... while retaining a human mind. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: DH rumour list
    ... Hermione what sort of transformation McGonagall was demonstrating. ... What this probably means is that you need an bird's brain to fly like ... Krum, for instance gave himself a shark head, but retained a human ... while retaining a human mind. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: DH rumour list
    ... Does this make him a ferret animagus? ... It was a transformation that only affected her outer shape. ... It did not turn her completely into a cat. ... Sirius as a dog? ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: The "Transformation" of Mankind
    ... This final evolution of the brain is what made ... The transformation of mankind into the "Homo Imaginative Sapiens" ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)