Re: Hagrid was wrong

On Mar 24, 3:37 pm, "Tonks" <punkve...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 10:40 am, "Sirius Kase" <SiriusK...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Mar 24, 3:53 am, Toon <t...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 23 Mar 2007 08:20:33 -0700, "Sirius Kase" <SiriusK...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Dumbledore does entrust Hagrid with secrets. It is quite possible
that Dumbledore explains things to Hagrid in such a way, that Hagrid
ist not intentionally being dishonest, but then Dumbledore is being
dishonest, and not simply omitting unimportant details. or maybe,
wizards have a much harder time dealing with moral decisions than real
people. They are better at doing things secretly. In our world, even
"bad" people have a huge incentive to not be caught telling lies.
That why truly effective or big conspiracies and coverups don't last,
it takes too much unproductive work.

But a wizard can obliviate memories of being caught. So, if they slip
up, they have an out.

Obliviation seems to have t's problems. first, can you do a group
obliviate? If a politician or other individual giving a speech to a
group lies about something, can all affected memories be changed? And
secondly, can memories be edited seemlessly?

The books gives numerous examples of groups who were oblivatied.
First, there's the group at the beach who saw the dragon. Were they
oblivated one by one or was there one big oblivate that fixed them
all. And did they have a clear replacement memory or was it more like
waking up after an episode of too much drnking, whre they had to
accept some one else's account of what happened? Tthat some one of
course is a wizard or a group of wizards. Similarly the giant rampage
in half blood prince that was thought to be a hurricane. Did those
people actually have memories of witnessing a hurricane or did they
just wake up, see the damage, and hear wizard started news that there
had been a hurricate? And, slightly off topic, how much does a
hurricane problem does Great 'Britain have anyway? Is such an
explanation even believable? I sorta havbe the feeling that Rowling
is makng fun of the tendency of some people to believe any official
explanation, no matter how improbable. But, I'm not sure, since I
don't know whether British might refer to a large storm as a hurricane
even if it's not what Americans would think of.


Yeah, I think that she's probabl trying to show us that although the
muggles aren't completly oblivious - they obviously would notice
something - they are pretty gullible, in that they will believe pretty
much anything anyone tells them JUst like Arthur said when he was
talking about his work one time - he mentioned shrinking keys, and
said that the muggles keep insisting they lost them - he said "they
won't recognize magic even when it's shoved in front of their faces"
or something like that.

Or they are so busy coming up with scientific or other rational
reasons for what they observe that they ignore the possiblity that
something they can't see for themselves if going on.

Probably since all throughout the books,
muggles have been shown to be pretty gullible, this may be a sign that
voldemort will be able to take advantage of them this way. They will
always take the explanation that is closest to their past experiences,
regardless of who is telling them that or why. They don't seem to
question anything much. They'll just automatically assume that
whatever is going on is something they're comfortable with. (This may
be a comment on our society, too, perhaps indicating that we're too
dependent on the press... ?)

Or trusting of experts who themselves can't agree. No one has proven
or disproven that it is unsafe to leave next to high powered electical
lines or broadcast towers. Therefore, it is "safe". Yet, no engineer
I know of would dream of raising his own children in a high RF
environment. The fact is, that it hasn't been proven safe at all.
You can't say something is safe just because it hasn't been proven
unsafe. But the corporate and government money promotes the "safe"
story. Whom do you trust? With products that are impossible for the
general public to test, we must trust the experts who are frequently
financed by people whose interests are directly opposed to ours.
There aren't many who can finance independent research. This is one
obvious job for the government, but even it is beholden to private
interests that are not aligned with the general public.

To get back ontopic, in a complicated world, we must trust experts to
understnad things that we don't, and if the experts lie, we tend to
live as though those lies are true. If those who seem to know are
lying wizards.....dang those people sure have a propensity to lie.

.

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