Re: Unanswered Questions



On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:11:32 -0500, drusilla
<gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> wrote:

gjw escribió:
On 12 Mar 2007 18:24:33 -0700, "Sirius Kase" <SiriusKase@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Mar 12, 7:21 pm, gjw <g...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:18:20 GMT, Thom Madura



<Thom-Mad...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
gjw wrote:
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:59:54 GMT, Robert A. Neinast <nein...@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
In article <_XHIh.52869$as2.1...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Thom-
Mad...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx says...
(quoting JKR)
[Lily] could have lived and chose to die. James was going to be killed
anyway. Do you see what I mean? I?m not saying James wasn't ready to;
he died trying to protect his family but he was going to be murdered anyway.
I find myself incredibly annoyed that somehow a male sacrifice is
less than a woman's, as per JRK. Of course James had a choice.
He could have apparated out of there. But of course he wouldn't.
And Lily's choice was no more of a choice. Of course she wouldn't
have stepped aside.
So the only difference is that V offered a *verbal* choice?
Yes, JRK can build her story however she wants to, but that
doesn't mean it necessarily makes sense.
I agree. I've always thought that the difference (between James'
sacrifice and Lily's) was minimal. But Rowling needs for it to be
different, so she basically ignores the fact that James would, in
fact, have also had an opportunity to live. He could have run. He
could have apparated. He could have picked up baby Harry and tossed
him out the front door to Voldemort, and THEN apparated. But all of
this is lost on JKR, who basically assumes that, because of James'
natural paternal instincts, he was doomed from the start. She draws
her very hazy distinction based solely on the fact that Lily was
actually given a formal opportunity to escape death by her killer, and
turned it down. James did not receive such a formal opportunity, a
time to stop and think about it, a time to choose, so in JKR's mind,
Lily's sacrifice was the braver of the two. It's bunk (IMO), but it's
what she's trying to tell us as part of her story, so we should try to
understand that much.
I agree that it is bunk - as I have said quite regularly.
In fact - I still think the offer was bunk - if he didn't want to kill
Lily = he certainly could have used other options to move her aside
instead of the AK - and left her alive.
Of course he could. But you have to remember Voldemort's personality.
He's not the patient sort. He doesn't tolerate disobedience easily,
and has no respect for human life. His offer to spare Lily was a
half-hearted one, at best, to begin with (made, in my opinin, because
of a grudging willingness to do someone a favor). And when she didn't
make it easy, he killed her as simply as we might swat a pesky fly.
I contend that the only reason he asked her to step aside is because
that was easier than killing her. It's possible that killing takes a
little effort, that it takes something out of him, that the extra soul
rip really does reduce his effectiveness right at the time when he
would rather be concentrating on Harry.


At one time, I would have agreed that was a distinct possibility.
However, Rowling's reply to a question changed my mind:

Q: This is one of my burning questions since the third book - why
did Voldemort offer Lily so many chances to live? Would he actually
have let her live?
JKR: Mmhm.
Q: Why?
JKR: [silence] Can't tell you. But he did offer, you're absolutely
right.

[She then deliberately changes the subject over to why James'
death didn't have the same magical effect.]


The "I can't tell you" indicates (to me, at least) that there is a
reason behind his hesitation, and one important enough that she can't
reveal it. That points towards something more complicated than a
simple desire to avoid a little extra effort...

I agree, although not entirely convinced, but that could involve many
other reasons besides that someone was in love with her or LV was asked
to spare her life.

Indeed, it could. I'm not 100% certain that anyone did ask him. It's
just one possibility. Another possibility that I thought of long ago
was that perhaps Voldemort had some distant, subconscious memory of
the ancient magical protection related to mothers' sacrifices, and
thus felt uneasy about killing Lily first. So he hesitated. But he
couldn't put a finger on why he felt uneasy, so when she wouldn't obey
him, he killed her.

One problem with that scenario, though, is that I can't see why
Rowling wouldn't just come out and say that. Her refusal to tell why
seems to indicate there's a secret being hidden...

So far, I haven't been able to come up with a better reason than
Voldemort being asked to spare her by someone (most likely Snape), but
Rowling could have something else in mind that I simply haven't
thought of...


For instance, being her between Harry, the target,
might have caused some interference for the Horcrux spell, or being
completely extremist, she gets killed, falls on Harry and she kills him:
then LV wouldn't be able to create his Horcrux with Harry's death.

Perhaps there is an effect when you sent an AK to two people at once.

He didn't kill them both with the same spell. He killed Lily first,
then (tried to kill) Harry.


.



Relevant Pages

  • Re: Unanswered Questions
    ... I've always thought that the difference (between James' ... He could have picked up baby Harry and tossed ... him out the front door to Voldemort, ... this is lost on JKR, who basically assumes that, because of James' ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Unanswered Questions
    ... I've always thought that the difference (between James' ... He could have picked up baby Harry and tossed ... him out the front door to Voldemort, ... this is lost on JKR, who basically assumes that, because of James' ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Unanswered Questions
    ... Of course James had a choice. ... him out the front door to Voldemort, ... this is lost on JKR, who basically assumes that, because of James' ... I contend that the only reason he asked her to step aside is because ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Unanswered Questions
    ... I've always thought that the difference (between James' ... He could have picked up baby Harry and tossed ... him out the front door to Voldemort, ... this is lost on JKR, who basically assumes that, because of James' ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Another Question
    ... > - why did Voldemort offer Lily so many chances to live? ... > death didn't protect Lily and Harry? ... I'm not saying James ... > JKR: Did he clearly die to try and protect Harry ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)