Re: A Thought About the twins


Karnak17 wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Karnak17 wrote:
I thought he was too uptight about childish pranks.

Leading to brain damage and near death. Yes.

...that they had no idea to reasonably expect.

Disagree. But that was not the point above. Brain damage and
near-death DID occur. Any childish pranks which produce such results
certainly merit getting "uptight" about, whether the results were
forseeable or not.

Disagree. If the results of your actions are not forseeable, then how
can you be blamed in full for those results?

That is not the issue above, is it.

Yes. Yes it is the issue above. It's not the issue from 5 posts ago,
but it IS the issue above. You just said that it didn't matter "whether
the results were forseeable or not." I am trying to discuss that point,
because I think it makes the difference between our "moral" stances
here.

You were not discussing above how much blame should be assigned to the twins,

What???? What did your "getting uptight" constitute? That's right.
Assigning blame to the twins for their actions. That is *precisely*
what we are discussing.

but how much jeering and sneering it was appropriate to display to 1) Montague

Cite? I have not discussed this at all. I said that I didn't pity him,
but this isn't what you just said.

or 2) fellow posters who take the injuries to Montague seriously.

It all comes down to how much blame you can assign the twins. If they
shouldn't be blamed, then your silly for being so uptight about my
mocking your accusations of guilt.

IMO, none at all, whether Montague's brain damage and death was forseeable by the > twins or whether it was not.

Well, I happen to agree on Montague. He certainly suffered enough for
his poor life choices. As for uptight posters who don't care whether
the twins should be blamed for his injuries or not, they just don't
like the pranks, I disagree.

<snip>
I think, honestly, that if you really believed the twins didn't expect
lasting harm to Montague, you wouldn't have the stance you do about the
results being all that matter.

Please don't claim "stances" for people they have never taken. I never
said anything so idiotic as "results are all that matter" when
determining guilt or innocence of a crime. Never came close. And I
don't like strawmen. Okay?

It's not a strawman. Okay? To me, this: "Any childish pranks which
produce such results
certainly merit getting "uptight" about, whether the results were
forseeable or not" sounds pretty damn close to "results are all that
matter."

It certainly does matter that Montague nearly died, and suffered brain
damage, simply as a matter of humanity. It will not stop mattering, or
become sneerworthy or a joke, if we should prove the twins had no way
of knowing harm would come to him, and are therefore to be held
blameless.

I think that, since wizarding injuries are always 10 times worse to
truly be considered "as serious," you are still taking this too
harshly.

Howver, I think that they DID have good reason to assume that harm
might come to him. They teleported him away, they had NO IDEA where,
and didn't know if it would take weeks for him to turn up again.
"That's DANGEROUS", was my immediate reaction when I first read the
book.

That's interesting. When I was reading, I was thinking "those f***ing
Slytherin have that and more coming to them. Man, I hate Umbridge, and
I hate how the Slytherins are gaining from this situation. I hope every
single one of them who abuses their power gets punished for it!"

And, you say that YOUR immediate reaction was "that's DANGEROUS." You
might want to have that checked out. The Slytherins in question are
dangerous, but I don't see that factoring into your thinking here.

-Aaron

.

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