Re: JK & research
- From: wadkin2000@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: 1 Apr 2006 16:26:29 -0800
Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
In article <1143906445.781895.168740@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Green-Eyed Chris wrote:
In article <122s45d9soi9p11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, dicconf@xxxxxxxxxre.
(Richard Eney) wrote:
In article <cwlNOSPAM-2803061931000001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Green-Eyed Chris <cwlNOSPAM@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
First, I'll list some facts and I think you'll see how extremely
coincidental(?) they are:
1. Thomas (Tom Riddle) means "twin" in Aramaic.
2. In HBP JK has Harry reading a book, "Quintessence - Quest" (Ch.15)
3. JK is familiar with Shakespeare and there's a soliloquy in Hamlet:
"The beauty of the world, the paragon of animals and yet to me what is
this quintessence of dust?"
There's another line in that which comes to mind:
"This majestical roof fretted with golden fire/
Why it appears no other thing to me /
Than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapors"
For some reason I am reminded of the ceiling of the Great Hall.
I think that fits in very well.
The four major elements of alchemy are fire, air,
water, and earth (correspond with anything familiar?)
JKR has said that the four houses =B3correspond roughly to the four
elements.=B2 Gryffindor is fire, Ravenclaw is air, Hufflepuff is earth,
and Slytherin is water. I've never regarded that as a major hint.
Except for Pomona Sprout (Herbology) being Head of Hufflepuff House
and the Slytherin Dormitories being located partially under the lake,
I can think of no other connections.
Potions are generally liquid.
Luna (a Ravenclaw) is something of an airhead.
LOL! So are you and Cassie. ;-) I say that affectionately because I feel
like a Hufflepuff with all of the airy theories in this thread. I'm glad
you two are around to explain them.
There are three stages (each has a series of different operations) in
alchemy. The first is called "nigredo" or "black" (Sirius?). This is
when the impure metal has to be killed and dissolved to its original
state in order for it to be reborn.
If you're just going by first names, I can see anybody in the "Black"
family tree as being a candidate for that one. From Wikipedia:
As with many Rowling characters, Sirius's name reveals part of his natu=
as"Sirius Black" is a pun on his ability to turn into a giant black dog;
Sirius is the name of a star (the brightest one in the sky) which can be
found in the constellation Canis Major (the big dog). The star Sirius w=
ve.called "dog's star" by some ancient cultures such as the Egyptians. Most
(but not all) of Black's family is likewise named after stars (Bellatrix
is in the constellation of Orion; Regulus is in Leo. Andromeda is a
constellation in the northern hemisphere, as is Draco). "Black" is an
obvious reference to the colour of Sirius' canine alter ego.
I know where you're trying to take us with "reborn" but, except as a
reference to Sirius' Animagus, it could just as well be Regulus,
The star Sirius has been observed since the times of Ancient Egypt
to die (sink below the horizon) for the same length of time every year
and be reborn (become visible above the horizon) again. It was part of
several major religions. That's one good reason for associating it
OK, I can buy that.
The second stage is called "albedo" or "white" (Albus?). This is
the purification stage, the washing or purifying of the metal.
I can only recall him ever having touched water swimming to/from the Ca=
The other person who swims in that scene is Harry.
Consider the possibility that the actions are represented by the charact=
with those names, but the substance on which they act is Harry.
I'm trying but I think it would work better if I were drunk.
Sirius Black dies mysteriously, and Harry is changed.
Albus dies, not so mysteriously, and Harry is changed further.
The final stage:
The third stage is called the "rubedo" or "red" (Rubeus Hagrid?).
This stage is called the "purification". During this chemical process,
the body of the metal is resurrected and the purified metal has been
transfigured into pure gold.
Transfiguration is difficult and dangerous, as McGonagall tells the class
on their first day. Dumbledore used to teach Transfiguration; he may
have been the one who taught McGonagall. The more difficult forms
involve self-transfiguration - a very risky thing to do, because
if you do it entirely you lose the ability to change back, according
to FBAWTFT. Krum partly transfigured himself in GoF, 2nd task.
Ever since reading about it, I have wondered why JKR should have felt
it necessary to reveal the future development of Hagrid's character
to Robbie Coltrane. I have only been able to come up with a romance
between Olympe Maxime and Hagrid after their very long visit to the
Giants. That, however, does seem to be a rather obvious possibility.
The other actor who was told some of what would happen is Alan Rickman.
So whatever happens is probably going to involve both Snape and Hagrid.
Dumbledore said "I would trust Hagrid with my life." (PS/SS, leaving
Harry on the doorstep) I don't recall his ever saying that about
Snape. Trust yes, but not "with my life". And Hagrid had complete
responsibility for preparing the body, carrying it (totally covered)
to the funeral, and at the last minute, doing something nobody could
see. I speculate that Hagrid did something to prepare Dumbledore for
a final transfiguration - which doesn't mean DD is alive. On the
contrary - the alchemy information posted includes the detail that
at the later stages the body becomes unimportant.
IIRC, Coltrane and Rickman were informed, presumably separately, before or
during the shooting of GoF. This leads me to believe that JKR was thinking
of something more long-term rather that something specific in movie 7.
I don't have the DVD yet, but I do recall Hagrid's accentuated infatuation
with Olympe. Snape was very much changed in GoF, Rickman's few scenes
being dominated by concern for Harry's safety.
1) The look he gives Harry, whose name has just come out of the Goblet,
can be described as neutral with a wisp of concern.
2) When the dragon barely misses whopping Harry with his tail, there is a
very brief shot of McGonagall and Snape. His concern and shock is twice
that of Harry's Head of House and it is genuine.
3) The scene where Harry and Ron are whacked on the head with a book is
played for comedy rather than hate. (Will Daniel ever learn not to laugh
before the punch-line?)
4) When Snape accuses Harry of stealing from his storeroom, he is
5) After Harry returns from the graveyard, Snape hears that a boy has
died. His face turns to panic and he immediately races to the scene.
6) Snape protectively throws himself in front of Harry when Barty Crouch
Jr. lunges at him.
Rickman's performance indicates to me that there is more to Snape's
concern for Harry's safety that just saving him for the Dark Lord,
although that option is still very much open.
Another "coincidence" is the Fountain of Magical Brethren which has a
wizard in the center and around him are a witch, a centaur, a goblin
and a house elf. The last three are looking up adoringly at the witch
and wizard. In alchemy, there is a Fountain of Fountains whereby two
of the operations is represented by a king and a queen at its center,
surrounded by the three principal minerals of Sulfur, Mercury and Salt.
Oh, very nice indeed. Which is which, I wonder. Goblin for sulfur,
centaur for mercury (Mercury/Hermes/intelligence), house elf for salt?
How do you do that? I could sniff a bottle of ether and not make those
Ahhh, Chris...All you need is a couple of glasses of wine, a couple of
sniffs of ether, and (well, this is a public newsgroup-won't mention
the third task!) to achieve "eternal glory"(GOF): the understanding of
all of the above!
Anticipating your third task, I am certain that one further sniff would
suffice to land me in the Janus Thickey Ward for all eternity (...with a
perpetual smile upon my face)! ;-p
Copying and pasting back to the future:
"BTW Chris, really good catches on the Snape scenes! I sincerely hope
that the "Snape is not evil" group will "have their day!" I also
noticed in another thread, that you went to the red hen site. What did
you think of it? I was able to get through about a quarter of them so
far since they're long. Sent you a email about it, but it got bounced
I find no other way to view the Snape scenes. I was working with the
memory of a pirated German DVD that was forced upon me. I am looking
forward to hearing Rickman's voice for possible further hints.
An ickle piece of me has just fragmented itself at the thought of what
might have been but for your airiheadedness. The next time you might feel
the urge to send me an email, consider removing the "NOSPAM" from
"cwlNOSPAM@xxxxxxxxxx". But you're in good company. Pamela Anderson hasn't
figured it out either (the poor twisted child).
Redhen-publications is certainly good for new ideas and approaches but, on
the whole, very uneconomical. I've only read 4 articles thoroughly and
estimate a net gain of one viable new insight for every 7 minutes of
reading. The authors are always trying to cover their backsides with every
word. Basically, I find that I prefer the alt.fan.harry-potter approach.
Throw your thoughts out there, risk getting a standard answer, a bite from
one of the watchdogs or even total disinterest.
I once took the time to register at:
It looked good at the moment, but I still haven't found the time to deal
with their "Humongous Bigfile".
That's the second time in one thread the term "airhead" has been used.
I'm starting to get a complex. Hermione Granger, remember?? And as an
fyi, the second one got bounced as well!!
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