Re: Why Didn't Dumbledore Ever Reprimand Snape?
- From: dicconf@xxxxxxxxx (Richard Eney)
- Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:25:45 -0000
In article <435CDF4F.2C72A225@xxxxxxx>,
richard e white <chiphead@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>Jean Lamb wrote:
>> Catherine Johnson wrote
>> > I'll ask you what I asked Lucy: Considering how you seem to feel about
>> > Harry, why do you bother reading these books? How can you read books
>> > where a character you seem to have so much contempt for is the hero?
>>
>> --Well, I used to like him. In book 5, a lot of his problems could easily
>> be blamed on Umbridge, though I didn't like what the twins got away with.
>> In book 6, I _didn't_ like him very much, but I do most of the other
>> characters. It is getting a bit boring that Gryffindors are good no matter
>> who gets hurt, and that Slytherins are always evil even if they're nearly
>> murdered while wandless,
>
>First off Peter was a grif so they're not all good. And Slughorn is not bad
>even if he is a socal climber.
>
>> and that Rowling reinforces the idea that everything that Harry does is
>> right even when it's scummy. Villains are _supposed_ to be scummy
>> (cf Draco), and it bothers me when the supposed heroes act the same
>> but it's ok when they do it.
>
>I think you're missing what JKR is aiming at. The idea is that your own actions
>are more inportant than rules.
>For example if you see a cop killing some one do you stop it?
>the right thing to do is yes, but the laws will be twisted against you from the
>moment you step in to help. but dose that mean you just watch and report what
>you saw?
>> I was glad to see Hermione worry about Montague in book 5 and McGonagall
>> set Harry down over the 'unfairness' of his detention. But there's
>> getting to be less and less of that.
>>
>> Yes, Harry is special and the savior of the Wizarding World etc. But I grew
>> up on the Lensman books, where heroes didn't throw snits and did the right
>> thing even when people they didn't like were involved.
>
>You could take the all good or all evil of those books?
I grew up on them too, and I liked them just fine. There is one slight difference
and that is that most if not all of the Lensmen were fully grown adults with
strong ethical systems already.
>I prefer shades of gray myself. I also don't want a squeaky clean character
>that is no where real. I like the characters to be more life like and human.
The distinction for me is in the hero as role model. I am fine with having
a character struggle with ethical questions. I am not so happy with showing
him being rewarded for doing pretty much the same thing the villain is criticized
for doing. "It's right because we're wearing the white hats today" is a
very bad justification. Lupin admits that his gang's behavior in school was
not admirable in all ways; he's the most adult of the marauders. But his
responses are overshadowed by the bad-boy attraction of Sirius, who did send
an unwarned student to meet a werewolf because he thought it was funny.
I feel the attraction of the Sirius character, but I still think he committed
attempted murder at the age of 16.
Hermione occasionally speaks up against it, but the average kid is going
to agree with Harry - after all, he's the hero and she's just the
rule-following hindrance who sometimes panics in a crisis. Rowling has
shown Harry gloating over having food when someone else was hungry _because_
the other person was hungry - yeah, it was Dudley, but the point is, that is
not an admirable quality and it has never been criticized by any other
character. She apparently thinks the Twins are innocently hilarious, when
all of their jokes involve not-so-subtle attacks on other people.
>> It's called basic fairness. We don't expect it from villains. We
>> do from heroes, even if they're Gryffindors.
>
>But are the rules and laws always fair in real life? What is wrong with a book
>that talks about doing something that is right even if it is against the law of
>the school?
The point is not that life isn't fair. We know that. A book that is read
by children - and in this case, enormous numbers of children - will have an
impact on their belief systems. The hero is inevitably taken as a role model.
Harry has been the hero for six books now. And he still isn't behaving like
someone I'd want in my life. He's still breaking any rule he feels like
breaking, justifying it as necessary when most of the time it's just that he's
bored. Much of the time, it isn't that Harry is doing the right thing in spite
of school rules - he is doing the wrong thing, misusing the cloak to go party
in Hogsmeade and attack Draco - and he is shown getting away with it. He is
careless with the cloak, leaves it behind on the tower in PS/SS, and DD gives
it back to him.
>> Things are supposed to be wrong if they're wrong no matter who does them.
>> Yeah, Filch was annoying in book 6, but he was trying to safeguard the
>> school by not letting dangerous items get in (though they did anyway).
<snip>
>> I do want to see how things come out, and I do hope Harry learns that
>> becoming like one's enemy is generally not the best solution.
>
>But if you never show someone making mistakes it tends to show the younger
>readers that the decisions are always easy. So when they have a hard decision
>they often think they are screwed up because they are having a hard time
>understanding what is right.
If we ever saw Harry having a hard time making the ethical decision, that
would be good. But what we usually see is Harry deciding that he wants
to go look in the mirror again, and having to be told not to and also
having the mirror hidden away from him. Or harry deciding that he wants
to buy candy, so it's okay to sneak out through an unknown tunnel and
visit Hogsmeade without permission when the whole school and the whole
town have been put under Dementor guard just to protect him. Lupin chews
him out about it, but Harry never had a twinge before he did it. He is
completely thoughtless. It took five books for him to think ahead at
all, and that's four books too many.
=Tamar
.
- References:
- Why Didn't Dumbledore Ever Reprimand Snape?
- From: sjmcarter
- Re: Why Didn't Dumbledore Ever Reprimand Snape?
- From: Fish Eye no Miko
- Re: Why Didn't Dumbledore Ever Reprimand Snape?
- From: Jean Lamb
- Re: Why Didn't Dumbledore Ever Reprimand Snape?
- From: richard e white
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