Re: Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
- From: stark <at_nihil@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:34:30 GMT
On 2005-08-16, Dark Magic <slbilan@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>
>> JP: Is it going to upset people?
>>
>> JKR: Yes. It upset me. I always knew it was coming, but I managed to
>> live in denial, and carry on with the character and not think about it.
>>
>> How bloody definitive could she be? Well, even that wasn't enough: she did
>> not literally say "Sirius is dead" there, and legions refused to believe it.
>>
>> I figure people overall were a lot more attached to Dumbledore than to
>> Sirius, so JKR may have to say "D is dead" thrice this time around ;-)
>
> Nonsense. First, Rowling has resurrected the dead twice already in her
> story, Pettigrew and Crouch were both definitely dead, witnessed and
> everything, and yet they reappeared.
Lets be a bit more specific. No one has ever returned after Rowling has
said they were dead. Her words are the only ones that matter.
She has said that Sirius is dead.
She has said that Dumbledore is dead.
> Second, Sirius' death was silly.
In your opinion. I found it fitting.
> People just don't die from falling through a curtain,
Ah, but people die every day because of green light and a brisk wind.
> even in her fantasy world it's unbelievable. Death by Avada Kedavra,
> yes. That we've seen. Trampled by a Hippogriff, that also I could
> believe. Devoured by a giant Spider, sure. With Sirius we have no
> cause of death, no corpse, it's just very implausible in the story and
> I don't care how many interviews she has to do to explain her plot,
> it's still implausible.
People mistake "implausible" with "personally unsatisfying". In order
for something to be implausible, there needs to be some logical
weakness. With Sirius' death, there is none.
We know from the moment we see the veil that it isn't just a veil. We
know the moment that Sirius goes through it, that it is a bad thing.
Everyone around Harry knows it. Only Harry second-guesses it.
Everyone else tells Harry that Sirius is dead. There is no hint that he
is still alive. There is no mystery about what the veil is for.
Everything is stated quite clearly. The idea that a death is only
unquestionable if you get to see a corpse is, quite frankly, silly.
If we'd seen twenty people fall through the veil, would that make you
question it less? Apparently its not enough for Lupin and Dumbledore to
confirm that falling through the veil results in death. How many more
people would it take? Four? If four more people had said that Sirius
was dead, would that have convinced you?
I'm convinced that the whole problem with people thinking that Sirius
might be alive (or believing he is dead but being upset that there was
doubt in the first place) centers around the _method_ that he died. I
can't remember anyone who's complained about it who didn't seem to want
Sirius' death to be something of a spectacle. So, when he died in a
rather anticlimactic manner, they assumed it must be false, because he
"deserved" better.
People are entitled to their opinions, but the fact that it didn't fit
your expectations or desires does not make it implausible. It just
makes it unsatisfying for you.
> Now with Dumbledore we have a definite cause of death. Avada Kedavra
> kills people, it's killed people before, we know all about it. (How
> many wizards have fallen to their doom through the curtain? I'd like
> to know) Dumbledore's body was lying in full evidence, death doesn't
> get much more certain than a corpse. And Dumbledore actually had a
> funeral, an actual encasement in a tomb that we witnessed along with
> Harry. There can be no legitimate doubt that Dumbledore is dead.
A refreshing comment. If only more people could understand this.
> There is no need whatsoever for Rowling to reassure or reiterate the
> fact, the story itself makes the fact crystal clear and undeniable. You
> still can't say that about Sirius Black.
I can. Rowling can. I see no reason or way that Sirius' death can be
questioned. There is simply no alternative explanation available.
--
stark
.
- References:
- Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
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- Re: Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
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- Re: Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
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- Re: Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
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- Re: Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
- From: Tim Peters
- Re: Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
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- Re: Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
- From: Tim Peters
- Re: Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
- From: Dark Magic
- Dumbledore's Death Denial Club
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