Re: Dumbledore's Death Denial Club

G
O
F

A
N
D

O
O
T
P

A
N
D

H
B
P

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

[Tim Peters]

<most of a longish JKR interview slice got snipped here>

>> JP: Is it going to upset people?
>>
>> JKR: Yes. It upset me. I always knew it was coming, but I managed to
>> live in denial, and carry on with the character and not think about
>> it.
>>
>> How bloody definitive could she be? Well, even that wasn't enough: she
>> did not literally say "Sirius is dead" there, and legions refused to
>> believe it.
>>
>> I figure people overall were a lot more attached to Dumbledore than to
>> Sirius, so JKR may have to say "D is dead" thrice this time around ;-)

[Dark Magic]
> Nonsense.

That's the spirit ;-) Anything in particular, or everything?

> First, Rowling has resurrected the dead twice already in her
> story, Pettigrew and Crouch were both definitely dead, witnessed
> and everything, and yet they reappeared.

A difference is that their (supposed) deaths occurred in the dim past. We
didn't see them thru Harry's eyes, Harry just heard about them from others.
Harry was _there_ when Cedric and Sirius and D bought it, and in the case of
S held out desperate hope until reality sunk in.

> Second, Sirius' death was silly. People just don't die from falling
> through a curtain, even in her fantasy world it's unbelievable.

Yet I believed it ;-) Of course it wasn't just a curtain, else Sirius would
have popped out the other side again, and it wouldn't have been in the
Department of Mysteries to begin with if it were a harmless bit of cloth.
The implication is that it was a gateway to (some Potterverse version of)
the hereafter. I expect we'll learn more about it in book 7. If not, fine,
he's still dead ;-)

> Death by Avada Kedavra, yes. That we've seen. Trampled by a Hippogriff
> that also I could believe. Devoured by a giant Spider, sure. With
> Sirius we have no cause of death, no corpse, it's just very implausible
> in the story and I don't care how many interviews she has to do to
> explain her plot, it's still implausible.

I'm not arguing that Sirius's death was 100% convincing within the book, and
I'm certainly unhappy that sometimes JKR has to let interviews explain what
the books _should_ have explained better. For another example of that,
there's the whole "a Pensieve memory reports objective reality, not the
memory-holder's subjective impressions" business -- the books don't even
begin to make that point, only her interviews do.

But given that's how it is, I give the interviews as much weight as the
books, and you snipped a great many of JKR's words from the interview above
that are simply impossibly strained to read as holding open that Sirius
didn't die in OotP. There are sufficient clues within OotP too, although
not nearly as many as for D's death in HBP. The most obvious was Lupin
saying at once:

"He can't come back, Harry," said Lupin, his voice breaking as
he struggled to contain Harry. "He can't come back, because he's
d ---"

at which point Harry interrupted. In desperation, we might hope that Lupin
was going to say "because he's doing his hair", or even that Lupin was
mistaken. But why would he be? He's the more knowledgable wizard here, and
he obviously believes Sirius is dead. It takes major contortions to believe
that he's wrong at that point, not to believe that he's right. To
underscore it, Harry spends the rest of the book failing to convince himself
Sirius didn't die. I expect JKR was inviting the reader to take this
journey toward acceptance with him.

> Now with Dumbledore we have a definite cause of death. Avada Kedavra
> kills people, it's killed people before, we know all about it. (How
> many wizards have fallen to their doom through the curtain? I'd like
> to know) Dumbledore's body was lying in full evidence, death doesn't
> get much more certain than a corpse. And Dumbledore actually had a
> funeral, an actual encasement in a tomb that we witnessed along with
> Harry. There can be no legitimate doubt that Dumbledore is dead.
> There is no need whatsoever for Rowling to reassure or reiterate the
> fact, the story itself makes the fact crystal clear and undeniable. You
> still can't say that about Sirius Black.

You haven't seen postings claiming D is alive? I have. And, yes, to me
they carry much the same flavor as post-OotP "Sirius is alive!" speculation.
In reality, posters do know about JKR's interviews too, and it took major
acts of willpower to ignore or misread (or just snip <wink>) JKR's
exceedingly clear interview statements about Sirius's death.

She hasn't been as redundantly clear about D's death in interviews yet, and
if you're inclined to believe it, of _course_ the greatest wizard in the
world could fake his own death convincingly. Every evidence of his death is
then seen as just more evidence of how well D planned it. For those people,
ya, it's going to take JKR literally saying "Dumbledore is dead" -- and even
then some will hang on through the end of book 7. Indeed, it will be wholly
consistent with the rest of the story to believe D _is_ alive, but for
loving reasons beyond our understanding chooses never to make an appearance
again ;-)


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Dumbledores Death Denial Club
    ... >> story, Pettigrew and Crouch were both definitely dead, witnessed ... Sirius Black claims to have seen his body first hand ... >> Second, Sirius' death was silly. ... > I'm certainly unhappy that sometimes JKR has to let interviews explain what ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: So why *did* Sirius have to die?
    ... complete we will know why Sirius had to pass through the veil. ... Did he have to die so that Harry ... Death Eater was not nearly as imminent as Hermionie feared. ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Jumping the Giant Squid
    ... >> Before HBP I believed that Sirius' death may serve a purpose in Harry's ... >> Harry would ask himself and others some very basic questions regarding ... point out, grief can also be a more quiet, pervasive thing or can hit ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Dumbledores Death Denial Club
    ... > Harry was _there_ when Cedric and Sirius and D bought it, ... >> Second, Sirius' death was silly. ... > I'm certainly unhappy that sometimes JKR has to let interviews explain ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Jumped the Shark #2 -- Harrys "Miracle Turnaround" in HBP
    ... > HARRY'S "MIRACLE TURNAROUND" IN HBP ... And Harry is DEVASTATED! ... > and Sirius died while trying to rescue him! ... > Harry, will have to face Voldemort in a battle to the death, a battle ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)